Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

1 January 1939

Evening, 5.30. The conversation was begun by Dr. Becharlal. We knew from the peculiar signs on his face that he was preparing and he soon burst forth.

Dr. Becharlal: What is the effect of fasting?

Sri Aurobindo (knitting his brows as usual at Dr. Becharlal’s question): What about it?

Dr. Becharlal: The effect of fasting on Yoga?

Sri Aurobindo (as if the question now were not so perplexing after all): It gives a sort of excitement to the vital being, but the effect does not seem to be very sound. I fasted twice – once in Alipore jail for ten days and the other time in Pondicherry for twenty-three days. At Alipore I was in full yogic activity. I was not taking any food. I was throwing away all of it into the bucket. Of course, the superintendent didn’t know. Only the warder knew and he said to the others, “The gentleman must be ill. He won’t live long.” Although I lost considerable weight, I could lift a pail of water above my head, which I couldn’t do ordinarily.

Then at Pondicherry, while I was fasting, I kept up full mental and vital and yogic activity. I was walking eight hours a day and yet not feeling tired in the least. When I broke my fast, I did it straight away with normal food.

Nirodbaran: How is it possible to be active like this without food?

Sri Aurobindo: One draws energy from the vital plane instead of depending on physical sustenance.

Once in Calcutta I lived for a long time on rice and bananas only. It was a very good food.

Satyendra: The trouble is that one can’t draw conclusions from your case.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): At least this conclusion can be drawn, that it can be done.

Now let me tell you about the invitation to dinner by R.C. Dutt. He was surprised that I was taking only vegetarian food whereas he could not live without meat. With vegetarian food I was feeling light and pure. It is just a belief that one can’t live without meat, and that creates a habit.

As regards fasting, I know of a European who fasted for forty days and became ecstatic over the effect of fasting, but after the fast he had a breakdown.

There are many stories about Jains fasting. What is the idea behind their fasts?

Satyendra: I suppose they believe in the mortification of the flesh for the release of the spirit.

Nirodbaran: Can fasting cure diseases too?

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if you know the process. That’s why Europeans fast. Sometimes it is the mental idea that works. You start with the idea of being well or ill and it happens accordingly.

A disease comes from outside. It pierces what the Mother calls the nervous sheath and enters the body. If one is conscious of this subtle nervous sheath, then the disease can be thrown away, as I did at Baroda with the thoughts, before it can enter. In neurasthenic people this nervous envelope becomes damaged.

Dr. Becharlal: Does neuralgia also come in the same way?

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Yes, I suppose you are thinking of your own case?

Dr. Becharlal: How then is one to get rid of it?

Sri Aurobindo: As I said, you have first to be conscious of the subtle body before you can do it.

Champaklal: X told me once how she used to have a headache which remained just above the head and it was very severe. We used to laugh at her because we couldn’t believe in a headache of that nature.

Sri Aurobindo: How do you know there can’t be such a headache? If the consciousness can be lifted above the head and remain there, why not a headache? The body is a mere means of responsive vibrations. Everything coming from outside finds a response in it and we get all these things.

Satyendra: If everything comes from outside, then what are we? What belongs to us?

Sri Aurobindo: In one sense nothing belongs to us. The physical is made up, you may say, of various predispositions: certain energies due to heredity, your past lives (the sum of energies of the past) and what you have acquired in this life. These are ready to act under favourable conditions, under the pressure of Nature – universal Nature which gives the sense of “I”, “I am doing everything.” This “I” and “mine” have no truth in the ordinary sense.

Satyendra: The other day you spoke of the fundamental personality. I couldn’t quite understand you.

Sri Aurobindo: There are two things here – the personality and the Person – which are not the same. The Person is the eternal Divine Purusha assuming many personalities and thrown out into Time as the Cosmic and as the Individual for a particular purpose, use or work. Even as the Individual, this Purusha is all the time conscious of identity with the Cosmic. That is why liberation of the Individual is possible.

Satyendra: Is the cosmic liberation static or dynamic?

Sri Aurobindo: It is both. In the static aspect, it is the Self, infinite, one, without movement, action, duality. In the dynamic, it depends on where your experience feels the unity. If in the mental, your mind feels one with the cosmic mind; if in the vital, your vital becomes part of the cosmic vital; if in the physical, the body is felt as a speck of universal Matter.

Just as there is a wall that separates the outer nature from the soul, the psychic being, so also there is a wall above the head. You break that wall or what is called the lid and you feel your individual self in the Infinite or you feel you are the Infinite. The opening can be vertical or horizontal – at various levels, the vital being, the heart, etc.

Champaklal: Is it true that illness comes from sadhana?

Sri Aurobindo: From sadhana?

Nirodbaran: I think he means that illness may come in the course of sadhana for purification.

Sri Aurobindo: That’s a different thing. It can be a circumstance in sadhana.

Champaklal: When I was still a newcomer and having some physical troubles now and then, people used to say it was due to sadhana. So I used to keep my troubles secret from you lest you should stop your Force when you found out about them.

Satyendra: Some Sufis and Bhaktas take illness and other such things as coming from the Divine.

Sri Aurobindo: They are right. They take everything as coming from the Divine, and it is a very good attitude if one can truly take it. If you neglect the chain of intermediate causes, whatever happens has the sanction of the Supreme. This is a Cause superior to everything.

Dr. Becharlal: If anything happens due to our negligence, can we call it sanctioned by the Divine?

Sri Aurobindo: I said, “If you neglect the chain of intermediate causes.”

Dr. Becharlal: Could there not be some danger in that attitude? We may shirk our responsibility and lay it on the Divine.

Sri Aurobindo: I was speaking about the Bhakta. For the Bhakta whatever happens is for the best and he takes everything in that light. For the Yogi who has to conquer these things, they must come; otherwise what is there to be conquered? In Yoga, difficulties are opportunities. No doubt, hostile forces are recognised as hostile, but from a special standpoint. Ultimately all powers are from the Divine, assisting in the work. They throw difficulties at us in order to test the strength.

It is the Divine that has created the opposition and sends you a defeat so that you may conquer hereafter. This is necessary in order to go beyond the ego’s sense of its own responsibility.

At one time I experienced the hostile forces as gods trying to test my strength in sadhana.

You act not for success but for the Divine, though that does not mean that you must not work for success. Is this confusing? That was what Arjuna complained to Krishna – that Krishna spoke in double words. He told Arjuna not to be eager for results but at the same time he said, “Fight and conquer.”