Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
20 January 1939
Nirodbaran: Dilip says, about the subject of X’s becoming a Buddhist from a Vaishnava, that it is not like that. He does not want to belong to any group or sect.
Sri Aurobindo: That is understandable.
Purani: Nothing seems to be given out in the papers about the interview between Chamberlain and Mussolini. Both parties say they are satisfied with the results.
Sri Aurobindo: I can’t understand the present English policy. I don’t know what England is after. France is being led by England – she is stuck to her like a tail. They say Mussolini is waiting for Franco’s victory in Spain and then he will present his terms to France. Franco’s victory will be dangerous for France. But it is very difficult to see how England profits by this. For as soon as Italy and Germany have crushed France, the next victim will be England. England knows very well Mussolini’s ambition to create an Italian Empire, and that means he will try to regain all that once belonged to Italy. She is deliberately raising Hitler and Mussolini against France and letting her down. I don’t know why, unless the three are going to share the empire of France and then England may try to set Hitler and Mussolini against each other. That will be in line with her traditional self-centred policy of balance of power. But it is a very risky game.
Nirodbaran: But is it possible? Can England remain aloof when France breaks with the other powers?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? Chamberlain has said that so long as England’s interests are not involved she is not obliged to fight. She will say that Italy’s demands have not been satisfied and so she has gone to war and Germany has joined her: there was no aggression on Italy’s part. Hence England is not obliged to come to the aid of France. Any number of excuses can be given. Daladier told Suryakumari’s friend, who is also a friend of Daladier’s, that he had to betray Czechoslovakia because Chamberlain told him he would support him so long as it was diplomatically possible but in case of war France should not count on England. This piece of information must be authentic, coming as it does from Daladier’s own friend.
Purani: I wonder why Flandin wants to support Franco when Blum is against him. You know Flandin even telegraphed to Mussolini his congratulations, etc. Hitler counts on him as a friend. Does Flandin want to join the Rome-Berlin Axis and thus keep England out?
Sri Aurobindo: How is that possible unless France satisfies Italy’s demands? After the Spanish question is settled, Italy is almost sure to claim Tunis, Nice and Djibouti. Is Flandin prepared to give them? Italy wants her empire in Africa. So Tunis and Djibouti are essential points for her and she also wants to be master of the Mediterranean.
Blum is a useless fellow. It was he who as Premier applied non-intervention in Spain.
No, no, it is sheer imbecility to expect that sort of thing.
At present it seems that two people are brandishing their arms against everybody and the rest are somehow trying to save themselves. The one man who has seen through the whole thing is Roosevelt, but he is too far off and he is not sure of the support of the American people.
Nirodbaran: What about Russia?
Sri Aurobindo: Russia is unreliable. One doesn’t know its military strength. At one time it was supposed to have the biggest air-force. But according to Lindbergh, it doesn’t appear to be so. The inner state of Germany also is not known. They are trying to conceal everything as far as possible.
Purani: Jawaharlal says that Hitler and his generals didn’t expect non-resistance from Austria. They were all very much surprised.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, the generals were opposed to Hitler’s plan, for they were not prepared to fight. Now Hitler will say, “Have you seen that I am right? Things have happened just as I told you.”
Purani: Jawaharlal also said that their threatened attack against Czechoslovakia was mainly bluff. All the tanks and machine-guns were only a show.
Sri Aurobindo: This can’t be reliable news. The Germans are too disciplined for such a thing.
Purani: There is some trouble in Holland. Germany is threatening Holland with cutting off the trade, etc., and establishing a trade-route through Antwerp instead of Amsterdam.
Sri Aurobindo: If that takes place, it will make Chamberlain fight in spite of himself and stop talking of peace. England doesn’t want any German navy in the North Sea. But Germany won’t put it there unless she wants war with England.
Then Purani spoke of Russia’s canal scheme to connect herself with Asia and also with the Arctic Sea. After that came a mention of some American lady visiting the Ashram in the company of Miss Margaret Wilson and finally some talk in a lighter vein.
Champaklal: Haradhan, when he used to work with the Mother, was asked by somebody, “Who are the advanced sadhaks here?” He replied, “I don’t know.” Then after he had been repeatedly pressed, he said, “I will tell you but you must not tell anybody else. There are only two advanced sadhaks here – you and I.” (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: This instance of two reminds me of a joke about Hugo. Balzac is supposed to have told a friend, “There are only two men who know how to write French – myself and Hugo.” When this was repeated to Hugo, he said, “But why Balzac?”
There is also the story of a Calvinist lady. The Calvinists have the doctrine that people are predestined to go to either heaven or hell. She was asked whether she knew where the congregation to which she belonged would go. She said, “All will go to hell, except myself and the minister – and I have doubts even about the minister.