Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
27 November 1939
Dr. Manilal (after doing pranam): Bump on the head again, Sir, for the third time!
Sri Aurobindo: Even if you have not got patience, you have persistence.
Dr. Manilal (explaining to the Mother who had just come in): The frontage is rather low. Perhaps Mahakali is smiting me?
The Mother: No, no.
Sri Aurobindo (looking at the Mother): It is certainly an experience. (Laughter by both)
Dr. Manilal (after Sri Aurobindo’s usual walk): How did you find the Darshan, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: What do you mean?
Dr. Manilal: I mean about the general progress.
Sri Aurobindo: What can I say about the general progress when different people are at different stages?
Dr. Manilal: Formerly you used to say things.
Sri Aurobindo: I have given that up, as I told you.
Dr. Manilal: You used to say you were pleased, there was some peace, harmony, etc.
Sri Aurobindo: Harmony? Peace maybe.
Dr. Manilal: Last time you said, “I can do some things more easily now.”
Sri Aurobindo: Are you asking me about my own progress?
Dr. Manilal: Your progress is our progress. We go along with you; at least with the tail end. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: I wish you did. Then you would be very near the head. The tail of a comet is very long!
Dr. Manilal: Then please tell us about individual progress – say, about mine.
Sri Aurobindo: All I can say about you is: you seem to be getting on.
Dr. Manilal: I told you that myself, Sir. Some people say they felt great Ananda, great satisfaction at the Darshan, while I didn’t feel anything.
Sri Aurobindo: There you are! How can I tell about the general progress then?
Dr. Manilal: How is it I didn’t feel anything, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: You may have been too much in the physical. To feel anything, the thickness of your body (laughing) – I mean the materiality of it – must be reduced.
Nirodbaran: Does it mean that those who felt something had some opening or had made some progress?
Sri Aurobindo: An opening at the moment at least, or they may have been in the vital. It is the physical consciousness that comes in the way.
Dr. Manilal: Formerly I used to feel something, but now I don’t. Does it mean that all I had gained has been lost?
Sri Aurobindo: No, all that remains behind while the work is going on in front. It is a very stupid stage.
Nirodbaran: Does everybody have to go through this stupid stage?
Sri Aurobindo: At least I had to.
Dr. Manilal: People also see visions and lights, though I don’t necessarily call that a sign of progress.
Sri Aurobindo: You don’t see visions?
Dr. Manilal: No. Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: But you had two, one after the other, and yet you say you haven’t progressed? As I said, when one falls into the physical consciousness, everything seems to disappear. And after the physical consciousness, there is the subconscient. Are you aware of your subconscient?
Dr. Manilal: No, Sir. But how to get out of this physical consciousness?
Sri Aurobindo: You have to get rid of ideas of the mind, desires of the vital and attachments of the physical.
Dr. Manilal: But it seems to take such a long time and I don’t think it is possible to do it by our own effort. I believe in Grace.
Purani: Yes, without doing anything ourselves, we want the Grace to do everything.
Dr. Manilal: Why, I have been trying.
Sri Aurobindo: Are you sure?
Dr. Manilal: Well, Sir, not in that sense. (Laughter)
Champaklal: What about you, Nirod? How did you feel at Darshan?
Nirodbaran: Don’t touch the sore.
Champaklal: Let us hear.
Nirodbaran: I am in the same boat with Manilal. So I think I must be in the physical consciousness.
Sri Aurobindo: Very possibly both in the same doctoral consciousness.
Dr. Manilal (after some time): You don’t approve of that exercise, Sir – raising the thigh and letting the leg hang?
Sri Aurobindo: I stopped it during Darshan as I had other things to do, and after Darshan I have been feeling lazy. I will try to do it again.
Purani (after Dr. Manilal had left and Sri Aurobindo started resting in bed): Champaklal wants to know if Manilal’s condition of being in the physical consciousness began after his direct contact with you: that is, after your accident.
Sri Aurobindo: No, no. It was there long before.
Nirodbaran: It seems to be a great ordeal for those who begin with the physical consciousness, for it takes a very long time to get out of it.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, sometimes it takes many years.
Nirodbaran: Unfortunately I have rarely had a single Darshan which could be called unusual and in this consciousness one is quite unconscious of what is happening.
Sri Aurobindo: Because it is a very thick crust – as I said, the thickness of the body. Usually it is because of this physical consciousness that people don’t take to Yoga. Some people are predominantly mental, some vital and some physical. But it doesn’t mean that those who are mental or vital won’t have difficulties to face. They may have experiences on those planes but difficulties will come up later on.
Nirodbaran: Perhaps the yogic force works according to the characteristic feature of the individual.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, of course. Stability is the nature of the physical consciousness. So, when anything is gained there, it is solid and stable. Experiences may be exhilarating but they don’t always solve difficulties. H had many experiences on the mental plane but his vital revolted when it was touched.
Nirodbaran: When one is unconscious of what is happening one doesn’t get the push. One swings back and forth, no steady progress can be maintained.
Sri Aurobindo: Very few people can maintain steady progress. Ups and downs are everywhere.
Nirodbaran: But they are more frequent here.
Sri Aurobindo: No, they are as frequent in other Yogas. What happens is that when the Force works the difficulties rise to the surface so that they may be dealt with, and one may not feel the progress though the work still goes on behind.
Nirodbaran: You said one has to get rid of desires and attachments in order to open the physical consciousness. If I am not deceived, it seems my desires are not as strong as before and yet I don’t feel the progress or rather I am not conscious of what is happening.
Sri Aurobindo: When I speak of the physical consciousness I mean the stuff of the consciousness, whether it is fine, coarse or thick. That stuff may get thinner and thinner and an opening may be made.
Evening
Dr. Manilal’s departure day. Sri Aurobindo was massaging his knee. Dr. Manilal sat leaning against the bed. It was unusual for Sri Aurobindo to ask anything at this time, but as Dr. Manilal was to go he perhaps gave him a chance by asking, “Any more bumps?” Dr. Manilal replied, “No, Sir, no more of them.” Taking the opportunity given, all gathered round the bed.
Dr. Manilal: By our contact with you, all our physical troubles should have gone, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: Why?
Dr. Manilal: The physical contact gives something directly to the physical, doesn’t it?
Sri Aurobindo: Do you mean to say that if a person is touched by a Yogi, he should be all right for the rest of his life?
Dr. Manilal: No, but if the yogi gives something, there should be an improvement in one’s physical condition.
Sri Aurobindo: It depends on the person and the contact.
Dr. Manilal (moving his hand to connect Sri Aurobindo to himself): Here is the person and here is the contact.
Sri Aurobindo: In that case you don’t seem to have benefited much by the contact. (Laughter)