Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

15 January 1940

Nirodbaran: There is a difference of opinion between A and P regarding something A has written. The sentence is: “What we give in dross we get back in gold.” A means that even if our devotion, our love for the Divine, is not pure at the beginning, the Divine accepts them and gives the rewards. Purani is unable to accept it. Purani says, “The sentence should begin: ‘What we give up as dross …’ ”

Sri Aurobindo (after a little while): Well?

Nirodbaran: Well? Which is correct?

Sri Aurobindo: It may be either. A has written it and he knows what he means.

Champaklal: I think A wants to know whether what he says is a fact. K was telling me – she studies with P – that she understood it in A’s sense while Purani doesn’t agree. Purani says it can’t be true.

Sri Aurobindo: Does Purani mean to say that only when one is perfect the Divine will accept the offering and give the reward? Then it would be very difficult for any human being. A is quite correct and it is a fact. Human nature is imperfect and impure. Whatever one offers at the beginning will be flawed because it is an offering of an inferior nature: the Divine accepts it and gives His response.

Nirodbaran: X will now withdraw his objection against Z, which we discussed yesterday.

Sri Aurobindo: Why?

Nirodbaran: He met him yesterday at a social function at M’s place. How can he say now that Z is not doing your Yoga?

Champaklal: I hear X also had an hour’s interview with Z.

Sri Aurobindo: Then he may have thrashed out the question. But what the objection is I don’t understand. Z is doing my Yoga in his own way. All people haven’t the same nature. Everybody has his own way of doing my Yoga.

Nirodbaran: If you put it that way, I suppose he won’t have any objection. Only he won’t call it your Yoga. He seems to say that in your Yoga you stress the acceptance of life.

Sri Aurobindo: We don’t accept life as it is. In that case what is the use of the Ashram? We may as well be at Calcutta. Does X object to Z’s seclusion?

Nirodbaran: Yes, and also Z doesn’t do any work.

Sri Aurobindo: But Y, to whom has also X objected, has heavy work to do. There are other disciples who are not doing any direct work for the Ashram. What about them?

Nirodbaran: From his point of view they are not doing your Yoga.

Satyendra: Work or no work, the chief thing is somehow to realise the Divine. Each may do it according to his own way.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.

Nirodbaran: But then one can realise God in utter seclusion. That won’t be this Yoga.

Satyendra: Sri Aurobindo’s Yoga will begin after the realisation.

Nirodbaran: There is another charge we hear very often from some people. They say that they don’t find any outward sign of progress even in people who have been staying here and doing Yoga for ten to fifteen years.

Sri Aurobindo: Have they the vision to see the inner progress?

Nirodbaran: But there should be some sign in the outer being. They say they are just as angry, jealous, egoistic as other people.

Sri Aurobindo: These things belong to the outer being and they are the last to change. That doesn’t mean that there is no inner progress or experience.

Nirodbaran: Nothing should be visible outside? In Ramana Maharshi, for instance, they say one can see or feel peace, calm, etc.

Sri Aurobindo: Is there nobody in the Ashram who is quiet and peaceful?

Satyendra: In the world also you find people who are not jealous, who are peaceful, etc.

Sri Aurobindo: How will you know then without inner perception? Maurice Magre saw peace and inner beauty in many faces, which he didn’t see outside the Ashram. For us it is nothing compared to what is yet to be done. All the same, it is something. I see light in many people here which I don’t see in worldly people.

Nirodbaran: They say about Z also that they don’t find any sign by which he can be said to have made any progress.

Sri Aurobindo: But every time I see him I see the stamp of a Yogi on him. Of course he is not a Siddha but one who is doing Yoga.

Purani: It is not always easy to make out, especially in people who follow an ordinary profession. I met Lele; nobody could say that he was a Yogi. He moved about just like an ordinary man.

Sri Aurobindo: One must have the vision. There are signs also, signs in the eyes and face, which one must know.

Satyendra: Yes, one must have the vision. But for a long time, I hear, you have been dealing with the physical. So there should be some reflection in the outer.

Sri Aurobindo: The physical means the physical consciousness. When that work is done, the effect may be seen on the outer physical.

Nirodbaran: But something may be reflected before the final achievement?

Sri Aurobindo: May be or may not.

Champaklal: Many thefts are committed in the Ashram. Do you know who the thief is? Or perhaps you don’t want to know and wish to play the part of Ignorance?

Sri Aurobindo: Why would I know? It is not my work. It is the concern of the police. You are asking like those who ask me about the share-market or horse-racing in Bombay.

Champaklal: The Mother said she is much bothered by these thefts. She wants to know …

Sri Aurobindo: Does she?

Champaklal: She sees and knows many things …

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, she sees many things that she doesn’t want to see. It doesn’t mean that she will see this too. We are not concerned with it and she does not use her inner power for these things.

Champaklal: Then it is not that you can’t know; only you are not concerned with it. That is what I wanted to find out.

Sri Aurobindo (after some time): What is the result of the conference between the two great powers – X and Z? (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: I don’t know. I haven’t met X. I meet him only once a week.

Purani: Then he will complain about you too.

Nirodbaran: On the contrary, it is he who is not available now.

Purani: Then he is not doing Sri Aurobindo’s Yoga either.