Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
5 February 1940
Nirodbaran: Anilbaran asks if he could send your blessings to the invalid asthmatic patient.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, he can but it doesn’t mean that the patient is going to recover.
Nirodbaran: He may get some palliation. But why shouldn’t he recover?
Sri Aurobindo: His asthma has been of very long standing and he also has fear.
Satyendra: Yes, he speaks of fear of death.
Sri Aurobindo: In chronic cases the body forms fixed habits which don’t want to go and they throw up strong resistance.
Nirodbaran: But some chronic cases have been cured, for example, Sahana’s sister.
Sri Aurobindo: That was not so bad a case, and moreover it depends on the receptivity.
Satyendra: Diseases are due to attacks of forces.
Nirodbaran: If it is a question of forces it should be easy to deal with them.
Sri Aurobindo: Why? Everything is due to the action of forces but it is not easy to deal with them.
Nirodbaran: Of course if some permanent structural change takes place it may be difficult.
Sri Aurobindo: The body also acquires structural and organic resistances – habits of the nerves and organs.
Nirodbaran: We speak of forces and beings. What is the difference between them? Are the forces also some kind of beings?
Sri Aurobindo: How do you mean?
Nirodbaran: I mean, are the forces separate entities, like the beings?
Sri Aurobindo: The forces act through a being when they can seize on it or when the being is open to them but they do not belong to the being.
Nirodbaran: The forces are not separate entities?
Sri Aurobindo: They are a part of the universal, like the forces of Nature.
Nirodbaran: Are they self-directed? Have they some idea or consciousness behind them?
Sri Aurobindo: They are directed by the universal or the Supreme Being. The consciousness comes from the universal which is ultimately directed by the Supreme.
Purani: Are they individualised?
Sri Aurobindo: What do you mean by that? They are universal forces. For instance, the universal force of love seizes upon a man and he becomes a lover. When the force leaves him, he ceases to be a lover.
Nirodbaran: But the force that is manifested through a being is its own force.
Sri Aurobindo: The force that is manifested through the being is the universal force and the being is part of the universal being. Both derive their support from the universal or the Supreme.
Satyendra: We want to know if the attacks of diseases on people are attacks of forces or of beings.
Sri Aurobindo: Forces of the universal vital nature or beings.
Nirodbaran: The force of electricity or the force of Nature which causes an earthquake or a cyclone – is it a universal force or the force of a being?
Sri Aurobindo: What kind of being?
Nirodbaran: Universal being.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, it may be the action of a universal being or force. We see the force as a movement.
Nirodbaran: Sometimes people on their death-bed shout out at some invisible forces, “Go away! I am not coming with you. Oh, they have come to fetch me away,” etc., etc. Are there some forces they see?
Sri Aurobindo: There are forces or beings of the other world which they may see at such a time. Usually some parts of their being are already in the other world.
Nirodbaran (After a while): Subhas Bose seems to have hinted at a separate Congress if the Rightists come to a compromise. He says that he hoped to capture the Congress in a year but the Rightists have disregarded the rules of the game and he has no such hope now. The masses are also with them.
Sri Aurobindo: The masses are with them? Is that why he doesn’t want an election in Bengal now?
Nirodbaran: It is a queer argument they have given against the election.
Purani: And did he always play according to the rules of the game?
Sri Aurobindo: Doing what he says is playing by the tales of the game? He seems to cherish many illusions, one of them being to capture the Congress in a year.
Nirodbaran: He still seems to have a big following. In Calcutta he addressed a large gathering.
Sri Aurobindo: Who says “large”?
Nirodbaran: The Amrita Bazar reported it.
Sri Aurobindo: In places like Calcutta and Bombay the Leftists seem to be large in number but even around Bombay they were badly defeated in the elections.
If the Congress can get Dominion Status without any fighting or struggle, I don’t see why it shouldn’t accept it. It can then build up our defence and when that is ready, it can easily cut off the British connection.
Nirodbaran: Subhas calls Dominion Status a compromise. He wants independence.
Sri Aurobindo: It is a compromise on the surface but it is practically independence. You get all you want without an unnecessary struggle. When you can secede at your will from the British connection, it is practically independence. Independence is all right if you are prepared for a revolution. But is the country ready for it?
Nirodbaran: According to Subhas it is; he says Gandhi and company are not in touch with the progressive elements in the country. So they don’t know the Kisans, the Socialists, etc.
Sri Aurobindo: Can he lead? What will the Kisans do? They are strong only in U.P. When the repression starts, the Kisans will at once sink under military pressure.
Evening
Purani read a letter from Armando Menezes, written to Udar.
Nirodbaran: Another poet will be added to the Ashram if Menezes comes. Somebody complained to me that there are many poets and artists in the Ashram but very few musicians. He says that music is not encouraged and developed here.
Sri Aurobindo: It may not have developed but it is encouraged.
Nirodbaran: He says that Sri Aurobindo being a poet can guide one even in the technical details of poetry. He says that Sri Aurobindo encourages painting too.
Sri Aurobindo: I am not a painter.
Nirodbaran: But you have a thorough knowledge of painting and as you don’t know much about music, it does not get much impetus.
Sri Aurobindo: As a matter of fact it is the Mother who directs painting and music.
Nirodbaran: But he says that the Mother doesn’t know much Indian music nor the technique of it.
Sri Aurobindo: He seems to be an ass. Venkataraman says that the Mother used to produce many Carnatic notes in her music while Nandini complained that the Mother brought Indian mixtures into her music.
Nirodbaran: But she can’t guide in the technique of Indian music as you guide in poetry.
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? When Sahana used to sing, the Mother could detect wrong notes at once. Music is a question of the ear. The Mother doesn’t know Indian painting. She paints in oils. So how does she direct the artists here?
She is not an architect but she finds mistakes in the plans of a building or in its execution, which Chandulal hasn’t seen, and afterwards the mistakes prove to be there. When we bought the new paint Silexore, nobody knew how to apply it, including the Mother, but when she took the brush and applied it, the paint stuck to the wall quite all right.
Nirodbaran: Our complainant says that music hasn’t got the Divine’s sanction and has no place in the future creation, Sri Aurobindo himself not being a musician.
Sri Aurobindo: That is perfectly idiotic.
Purani: I think the fault lies with the musician himself.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, Romen, for instance, would have been a very great musician, but he didn’t apply himself.
Purani: The trouble is that when our musicians take up music they don’t try to perfect it but take it up only as a means for Divine realisation.
Sri Aurobindo: Who are these musicians?
Nirodbaran: Yes, who are they? You can’t say that Dilip doesn’t try to perfect his music.
Sri Aurobindo: Dilip and Sahana are people who have real music in them. But the difficulty in music is the tendency for self-admiration to grow in the musician.
Nirodbaran: But so is it in poetry.
Purani: After all there aren’t many artists here …
Nirodbaran: Quite a lot: Krishnalal, Anilkumar, Nishikanto, Jayantilal.
Purani: Nishikanto is defunct.
Nirodbaran: Nonetheless he is an artist and there are others – Champaklal, Sanjiban, etc., etc.
Purani: There are many musicians too – Dilip, Sahana, Anilbaran.
Nirodbaran: Anilbaran? If he is a musician, so are you.
Purani: Anilbaran sings all right; I have a taste for music and art.
Nirodbaran (not hearing properly): Who has a taste? Anilbaran?
Sri Aurobindo: No, he is speaking about himself.