Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
22 February 1940
Sri Aurobindo had finished walking and was sitting in his chair. Dr. Manilal slowly walked up and stood in front of him, evidently to ask something.
Nirodbaran: Dr. Manilal’s face is shining.
Sri Aurobindo (looking at Dr. Manilal, who was smiling): Luminosity of revelation?
Dr. Manilal: I sat near Dr. Becharlal, Sir. He was ecstatic. So I asked him if he has had an experience. He said it was a simple feeling of Ananda. Perhaps I may have got something from him by breathing his air.
Satyendra: You get more by breathing his air than by breathing Sri Aurobindo’s. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: Among us all, Dr. Becharlal seems to have profited the most by staying here.
Sri Aurobindo: I see. (After a pause, to Nirodbaran) What does Buddhadev say? Is he satisfied with the Ashram or does he find the people too small for him? (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: I don’t know. I will ask him. (To Dr. Manilal, who was looking sideways at Sri Aurobindo) Do you know Buddhadev?
Dr. Manilal: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: Who is he?
Dr. Manilal: Why, Sir, Bhagawan Buddha? (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: Well, Buddha has come for the Darshan.
Dr. Manilal (on being told about Buddhadev’s size): Oh, I know now. We came here in the same compartment. He occupied the top berth just above me. I told him he had better take the lower one.
Sri Aurobindo: Not safe for you?
Dr. Manilal: No, Sir. He is a professor of mathematics.
Nirodbaran: No, of Sanskrit.
Satyendra (to Sri Aurobindo): Did you recognise your old friend Charu Dutt, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: I was looking for him, but he went away so hurriedly that I couldn’t see him very well.
Nirodbaran: He said he was feeling rather nervous, wondering what account he could give you of his deeds and misdeeds during the thirty years since he saw you last. (Laughter) All the same he had a good look at you from a distance and you also gave him a straight sharp glance, he says.
Sri Aurobindo: I give a sharp glance to everybody who is not a known face.
Purani: One of his reminiscences of you is that you signed your name in support of the Suddhi movement. They were taking down the names of people who favoured the movement and you gave yours.
Sri Aurobindo: When and where?
Purani: At Delhi.
Sri Aurobindo: Delhi station? When?
Purani: After the Surat Congress.
Sri Aurobindo: Can’t be. I don’t think I went to Delhi after it. It must have been somebody else and he mistook him for me.
Purani: You are supposed to have gone about places for propaganda.
Sri Aurobindo: I never committed the crime of making propaganda in my life.
Purani: Perhaps you were passing through Delhi station.
Sri Aurobindo: That is conceivable. That is why I asked about Delhi station.
Dr. Manilal: You can take your bath now, Sir. It will be more pleasant for you.
Sri Aurobindo: Everything will come in its right time. (Laughter) Shanaih, shanaih, langhate girim. (Climbing the hills step by step.)
Nirodbaran: My typhoid intuition seems to have failed.
Sri Aurobindo (laughing): I see. How is that?
Nirodbaran: That fellow came to see me today quite all right: no fever!
Bala of the Atelier had had continuous fever for three days. The doctors thought it could be anything, even typhoid – so he was not allowed to go for Darshan. The day after Darshan his fever was gone.
Champaklal: So it was only to prevent him from going to Darshan that the fever came.
Nirodbaran: Looks like it.
Champaklal (to Sri Aurobindo): Is it a coincidence? Or are there forces which put such obstacles on the way? They say that forces put these obstacles.
Dr. Manilal: If a man is keen, he can put down all obstacles or come for Darshan in spite of the fever.
Champaklal: Even if a man is keen, sometimes things happen which he can’t prevent and he is overcome by them or can’t fight against them.
Sri Aurobindo: It depends on the case.
Champaklal: This particular case, for example?
Sri Aurobindo: I have not studied this case, so I don’t know.
Dr. Manilal: But he must have been keen to come for the Darshan.
Sri Aurobindo: Why did he want to come for the Darshan?
Dr. Manilal: As usual, it must be for the elevation of his soul, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: Are you sure? Did he tell you that? If he wanted to come for that “usual” reason, the fever came as an unusual factor. (Laughter)
Purani: There are plenty of reasons why one wants Darshan.
Dr. Manilal (to Sri Aurobindo): How did you find this Darshan, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: In what way?
Dr. Manilal: I mean, did you find any improvement?
Sri Aurobindo: Again, improvement in what way?
Dr. Manilal: Subjectively and objectively, compared to the last Darshan.
Sri Aurobindo: Subjectively, shall I say, as per usual. (Laughter) Objectively, I saw a greater man than had ever come before. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: Shall we send a telegram to Puranmal?
Sri Aurobindo: What for?
Dr. Manilal: He said that when Supermind descended he was to be informed. It is also Puranmal who staggered Hukumchand by saying that he had given Rs. 30,000 to the Ashram. Hukumchand didn’t dare to give anything.
Sri Aurobindo: Why?
Dr. Manilal: Because he thought that if Puranmal gave so much he must either give more or nothing at all. He chose the latter course.
Sri Aurobindo: I hear he has lost heavily.
Champaklal: It is right punishment for him. Not only did he not give anything; he took away one loaf of bread from here. (Sri Aurobindo laughed.)
Dr. Manilal: How can it be a punishment? The Divine can’t be vindictive.
Sri Aurobindo: Why not?
Dr. Manilal: We know of the Divine as protective, kind and benevolent.
Sri Aurobindo: That is Vishnu. There is also Shiva.
Dr. Manilal: Shiva is Bholanath1.
Sri Aurobindo: He is also Rudra2.
Dr. Manilal: But he can’t be vindictive to a Bhakta for such things.
Sri Aurobindo: It depends on the mood the Divine is in.
Nirodbaran (To Dr. Manilal): What do you mean by the expression “such things”? Go to Dilip. He will say, “Whether a man is a Bhakta or not can be judged only by his dealing with money. Money is the test. If you can’t offer money to the Divine, your sincerity is not genuine.”
Champaklal: There are plenty of people who are Bhaktas, but when the money-question comes, their Bhakti disappears. (Sri Aurobindo was enjoying the talk.)
Dr. Manilal: If money is the test, then robbers also are Bhaktas. Some of them rob people and offer part of their plunder to their god. Is that Bhakti?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not?
Dr. Manilal: How can it be, Sir? They get the money by robbing others and offer it as a bribe. Is that true Bhakti?
Sri Aurobindo: What is true Bhakti? There is no true or false Bhakti. Bhakti is Bhakti. Commercial people rob others and give offerings to God. Is it not Bhakti?
Dr. Manilal: But somehow I can’t accept it, Sir, that a robber or murderer who offers money obtained by doubtful means does that out of Bhakti.
Sri Aurobindo: Is a robber worse than a conqueror? A conqueror does the same thing. Where is the difference? A robber too may be brave and noble. When Rama on the battlefield prayed to Durga for help, it was not out of Bhakti he did it. What you say is an ethical or moral point. It has nothing to do with spirituality. The question is whether one feels the Bhakti and, if he feels it, it is quite genuine.
Dr. Manilal: According to Jainism, Sir, (great laughter) only that is true Bhakti which has no motive in it and only an offering acquired in a pure or virtuous way is a real offering. The robber is neither motiveless nor is his money acquired in a virtuous way. He offers a small sum of money as a bribe to God.
Sri Aurobindo: I don’t understand the point about motive here. There are two kinds of Bhakti: Sahaituki and Ahaituki. Sahaituki Bhakti is that type which may have a motive but it does not mean that it is not Bhakti. Ahaituki is, of course, without motive or demand. If the Divine were to accept offerings only from virtuous people, it would be a hard outlook for the world. (Laughter) Your mention of bribe and small amount reminds me of X. He says that people simply thrust the money on him and he can’t but accept it. After all, it is a small bribe, he says. I was reminded then of the maidservant’s story. Have I told it to you?
Dr. Manilal: No, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: A maidservant got an illegitimate child. The mistress of the house was very angry and rebuked her severely for the baby. The maidservant replied, “But Madam, it is such a small one.” (Laughter)
Evening
Satyendra (suddenly): Are you taking the same diet as before, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: No, why?
Satyendra: I thought that because you seemed to have had more blood formerly.
Nirodbaran: Why do you say so?
Satyendra: From the nails. They were more pink. (To Sri Aurobindo) Your diet lacks blood-forming substances.
Sri Aurobindo: The change is good, then; for I used to feel giddy before; it may have been due to an excess of blood.
Nirodbaran: It may have been due to an excess of correspondence. (Sri Aurobindo laughed.)
Sri Aurobindo: Very possibly.
Dr. Manilal: Or due to poetry-correction.
Sri Aurobindo: On the contrary, giddiness comes when I can’t write poetry; as soon as I start to write it, it disappears.
Dr. Manilal: No, Sir, I was talking of Nirodbaran’s poetry.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh, but he was not writing frequently. What are the blood-forming substances?
Satyendra: Dr. Manilal can tell you of them. Milk is one.
Sri Aurobindo: Milk I never take.
Dr. Manilal: I think that what you do take has blood-forming elements – fruits and vegetables, etc.
Sri Aurobindo: I was taking more stuff before, of course – almond juice and other things.
Dr. Manilal: Almond is not good, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: Why?
Dr. Manilal: It is very rich and hard to digest. It has plenty of protein and may cause an excess of uric acid.
Purani: How?
Satyendra: Plenty of people take almond. The Westerners take any amount. I take it myself. I don’t find it hard to digest.
Dr. Manilal: Because it is hard on the digestion wrestlers don’t live long. As I said, it is very rich in protein – and in oil – like meat, and therefore harmful.
Sri Aurobindo: I don’t agree.
Purani: It depends on the person. Some people can digest it, others can’t. Just like wine – some can drink any amount and live up to an old age.
Sri Aurobindo: Rajen Mitra, the antiquarian, used to drink one bottle of brandy every day and yet he lived up to the age of eighty.
1 The Lord who forgives and forgets.
2 The Lord of violent force.