Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

17 March 1940

There was a letter from an outside sadhak regarding his election affair. Nirodbaran read it to Sri Aurobindo.

Nirodbaran: “You may not be interested in politics …”

Purani: We are interested.

Sri Aurobindo: We are very much interested though we don’t take part in it.

Nirodbaran: “The allegation of newspapers is not true that I voted against the release of political prisoners. I voted for it. Neither is it true that I sided with the Government against the censure motion by Congress.”

Sri Aurobindo: Why doesn’t he contradict the allegation then? It is absurd to remain quiet when the papers are spreading false news.

Nirodbaran: “I have spoken to my friends and other members about it.”

Sri Aurobindo: He may have spoken to them but he didn’t speak to the papers.

Then the letter elucidated why he had taken part in politics, etc. On this there was no comment from Sri Aurobindo.

Purani: You seem to have relaxed the rule that the disciples shouldn’t take part in politics.

Sri Aurobindo: It is meant for inmates, not for those who are outside. But there also, if they take part in politics, they shouldn’t join any revolutionary activities, as that would bring trouble to the Ashram.

Evening

Dr. Becharlal: Can one get liberation with desire still present in the lower nature?

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, why not? One can realise the Self and attain Moksha or liberation in spite of desires.

Dr. Becharlal: Won’t one have to take birth again because of the desires?

Sri Aurobindo: No, the desires fall off with the death of the body.

Champaklal: When one snores in meditation, does it mean that one is sleeping instead of meditating?

Sri Aurobindo: One may be meditating. One’s consciousness may have gone within – it is not quite Samadhi – while the body falls asleep.

Champaklal: I ask because very often I have felt that I have gone somewhere and am feeling nice, calm and peaceful but when I wake up I myself find I was snoring or others tell me I was doing so.

Sri Aurobindo: When you feel peace and calm it means you have gone within. But aren’t you conscious of where you have gone?

Champaklal: No, only a feeling of going very deep into a pleasant region. And this has been happening for many years. What is the further stage and how is one to get it?

Sri Aurobindo: The further stage is to be conscious and there is no device for it. One has to aspire and to will in one’s waking moments to be conscious. (Looking at Nirodbaran) You are wondering how they feel calm and peaceful?

Nirodbaran: No, because you have already told me that first my physical crust has to go. (Laughter)

Purani: In my case, when I dream, I am very conscious but just as I wake up I forget all about it. But if some clue remains, I can work it out and get back the full dream.

Sri Aurobindo: One has to acquire the habit of keeping the mind quiet after waking. Then the memory comes back.

Nirodbaran: X accosted me suddenly and said, “Do you know the cause of Sri Aurobindo’s accident? It is due to our mistakes, our egoism.”

Sri Aurobindo: She means I broke my leg and took the sins of all of you upon my thigh?

Satyendra: That is the general belief. It seems that the Mother also said something to that effect.

Purani: If this was said of Universal Nature, it would be more correct, perhaps. Of course we also come in there.

Satyendra (to Sri Aurobindo): What do you say, Sir?

Sri Aurobindo: Even in the old Yogas there is such a belief. Some Yogi in the South told another, “If you take disciples, then you will have the difficulties of your disciples to take up, added to your own.” Christ said that he took up the sins of the world.

Nirodbaran: But the accident appears to have come as a blessing because, X says, everybody is now feeling a push, there is a tremendous progress.

Sri Aurobindo: They couldn’t feel the push without my breaking my thigh? (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: X herself is flying.

Sri Aurobindo: Flying where?

Nirodbaran: She says she feels free now because of a great suffering she went through soon after the accident: her egoism seems to have become ripe and burst!

Sri Aurobindo: Oh, an abscess? Does she actually say her egoism has disappeared?

Nirodbaran: Yes. It has burst, she says.

Sri Aurobindo: Burst in what sense? (Laughter)

Purani: She seems to be trying to cure Y of his egoism. I told her that it would be a big job for her.

Sri Aurobindo: Too big an abscess, spread all over the body? (Laughter)

Champaklal again brought up the subject of snoring.

Champaklal: Except for causing disturbance to others, does snoring harm one in any way?

Sri Aurobindo: Harm? You mean, is it immoral? (Laughter) There is no harm; while the body sleeps, the inner being meditates. It does not mean this happens in all cases. All cases of snoring are not meditation.

Champaklal: Why does one snore?

Sri Aurobindo: You mean why does the physical body snore? For that you have to ask a doctor. Ask Nirod. Why should others get disturbed by snoring?

Purani: One doesn’t if one can get into the rhythm of the snoring. I disturb Nirod when he goes out of rhythm.

Sri Aurobindo: You mean when he doesn’t snore but snorts – and goes from mental into Overmind rhythm or from lyrical to epic rhythm? (Laughter)