Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
16 May 1940
Nirodbaran: Dilip has received a letter from Sir Francis Younghusband asking him to be a member of the Fellowship of Faiths. It is an irony since he has lost all faith in fellowship.
Sri Aurobindo: Hitler is uniting all into a fellowship of nations. (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: Dilip says the Mother will have to put forth more force to save France.
Sri Aurobindo: What an idea! He thinks that the Mother has a special concern for France?
Satyendra: Many people say that she does not care what happens to Britain but France she will save.
Sri Aurobindo (laughing): How can it be possible to do that without saving Britain also? They are allies.
Satyendra: Yes, but Hitler is trying to divide them. His wrath is against England. He is likely to attack England directly.
Sri Aurobindo: What about their fleet? Do they think that the Italians will come and destroy it?
Nirodbaran: The Mother will save France and Sri Aurobindo India.
Satyendra: People think that Sri Aurobindo is not interested in India.
Nirodbaran: He is a world citizen now.
Satyendra: He is too great to be busy over India. He is busy with the problem of life.
Sri Aurobindo: Who says that?
Nirodbaran: X. He is still very much upset over the Indian problem.
Sri Aurobindo: The Pakistan scheme is not of much interest.
Nirodbaran: Not Pakistan. He speaks of Indian freedom.
Sri Aurobindo: Indian freedom? India will inevitably be free if Hitler and Stalin are removed. Otherwise I can’t give a guarantee.
Nirodbaran: They will be removed when the Supermind descends. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: What did you say? They will be removed when the Supermind descends or it will descend when they are removed?
Nirodbaran: It is the same thing.
Sri Aurobindo (After a while): The Dutch seem to be good fighters but they don’t seem to have brains. They have lost about a quarter of their army without holding any position.
Satyendra: Their Commander-in-Chief has asked them to cease fire.
Sri Aurobindo: That is in the central part. In Zeeland they are still fighting. He has asked them to cease fire because the army was being attacked from the rear. Instead of ceasing fire they could draw back to the Belgian line.
Satyendra: They may do that.
Sri Aurobindo: They are only thinking about it. That’s why I say that they don’t seem to have brains.
Nirodbaran: The Allies could not send any help to Holland.
Sri Aurobindo: No, there was no time. They have taken the strategic line from Antwerp to Namur and sent an advance army in front. If there had been a previous arrangement they could have gone to their help in time.
Nirodbaran: The Assistant Secretary of Viswa Bharati has written to Sisir that the Committee has decided to present Tagore’s works to the Ashram.
Sri Aurobindo: What is his name?
Nirodbaran: Kishori Mohan Santara.
Sri Aurobindo: Santara? Where is he swimming1?
Nirodbaran: In his atheism. He is a staunch Brahmo and at the same time an atheist.
Sri Aurobindo: How is that? Brahmoism is supposed to be theism or rather Deism – no, more than Deism because Brahmos pray to God for help.
Nirodbaran: He writes that after reading your books he finds a new light.
Jatin Bal has written a letter, putting some questions to you:
1. Do you think physics and chemistry will ever be able to know the truth of the phenomenon of life?
2. There is a passage in The Life Divine: “Science cannot dictate …” Do you mean to say that there will never be any conciliation between science and metaphysics?
3. Will science do well to take into consideration the spiritual view of things or keep strictly on its own lines?
4. Einstein does not decry metaphysics but asserts that science will show him the truth. How far is he right?
5. To a friend Einstein said: “It is my inner conviction that the development of science itself seeks in the main to satisfy the longing for knowledge which psychologically asserts itself as religious feeling.” Is he not right?
6. He also says that for the misapplication of science human nature is to blame and not science which is a search after pure knowledge and truth. Can it be said that science is solely responsible for all the evils of the world and religion alone stands for our good? Can we even say that religion is superior to science or vice versa? Is not each great in its own sphere?
Sri Aurobindo: 1. Physics can know the truth of the phenomenon of life and that also when combined with biology, but not the essential truth of life. Such truth means consciousness, basic reality, and how can scientists know it by their science? Science is concerned with the process of things. If science wants to know the fundamental truth, it has to go beyond process. That is why the continental scientists do not agree with Jeans and Eddington. They say that it is not within the scope of science to be busy with the metaphysical aspect of things. It is concerned, as I said, with process; if it goes beyond that, it is no longer science. Do you understand? I have dealt with all that in The Life Divine, Part II.
2. Conciliation? There is no opposition between science and metaphysics. Each is concerned with its own sphere and the connection between the two may be established.
3. How can science take the spiritual view? That is not its business and, if it takes that view, it will no longer be science.
4. Truth? Which truth? If he means ultimate truth, how can science show him that? If it is the truth of things, that is another matter.
5. What is meant by religious feeling and pure knowledge? Ultimate knowledge?
6. That science is concerned with discovery is true, though only partially. For application science is also responsible. Just see how scientists are engaged in devising various methods of destruction in Europe. So how can it be said that science is not responsible for application?
Science and religion are both great in their own respective spheres, but in a sense religion is superior in that its appeal is wider and deeper than that of science. If it is admitted that man has a soul, an inner consciousness, then religion is the best means for this consciousness to develop into a higher state of being.
Even scientists in Europe don’t make the statement that religion is the root of all evil. Such a statement would invite the opposite view that science is the root of all evil. Science has made humanity materialistic in attitude and put tremendous powers in its hands, which it abuses. You may say that science is not responsible for the misuse, that its business is discovery. Then it can be argued that it has given humanity these instruments without making it ready for their use.
Evening
Champaklal: It seems Dr. R says that Hitler is winning because Sri Aurobindo is helping him with his force. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: What? Does he believe that I want to be a subject of Hitler’s?
Satyendra: He must be pulling somebody’s leg. America is warning all Americans to leave Italy.
Sri Aurobindo: They expect perhaps that Italy will come into the war.
Satyendra: Yes. If there are any American casualties, they fear their country might be dragged into the war. They want to avoid the war.
Sri Aurobindo: They seem to be able only to talk like their Kellogg Pact.
Purani: Or they may come in when it is too late.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, everybody is too late except Hitler.
Narvik is coming in again. The Allies seem to have taken a town (laughing and pointing a finger) – and that too because of the French troops that have landed.
1 In Bengali “santar” means “swimming”.