Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
3 June 1940
Purani: Franco’s representative seems to have met Mussolini and then gone to meet Hitler.
Sri Aurobindo: Who is he?
Purani: I forget his name – some general. Military circles say that after seeing the Dunkirk operation they are convinced that the navy is still superior to the air force. The German air force could not cause much damage to their soldiers or to the navy.
Nirodbaran: That is because of the R.A.F. resistance and because the German air force is not so efficient.
Sri Aurobindo: An air force is effective only on land. On sea it is not so effective.
Purani: They say that tons and tons of bombs have been lost without causing any proportionate damage.
Sri Aurobindo: That, of course. Still it is not as bad as the old bombardment. You know the story of the bombing of Smyrna?
Satyendra: No.
Sri Aurobindo: After a whole day’s bombardment they killed only a goat and a donkey! (Laughter)
Satyendra: These had perhaps come there on hearing the noise!
Purani: General Prioux is said to have reached Dunkirk – the morning radio news says.
Sri Aurobindo: No, it is not correct. It seems only a part of Prioux’s troops has reached there. Looks as if they were lost. Almost the whole of the B.E.F. has escaped. The French were farther away from the coast.
Purani: King Leopold’s mother is said to be a German.
Sri Aurobindo: German? I see. Who said so?
Purani: Jwalanti1. Nishtha2 also says that she is an enigma. During the last war’s peace negotiations, her face used to be like a mask. Nobody knew whether she sided with Germany or with the Allies. Nishtha has met her.
Sri Aurobindo: But it was said that she strongly supported the king against the Germans. Just because she is a German does not mean that she should side with Germany. The English king also was German; so was the Romanian king.
Satyendra: Maeterlinck says that the German blood is alive.
Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Yes.
Nirodbaran: I thought Maeterlinck was long dead.
Satyendra: So did I.
Sri Aurobindo: Very much alive!
Satyendra: This Habsburg dynasty seems a very long one; that is what Gunther says.
Sri Aurobindo: No, most European royal families married into small German states which are now extinct and the rest in Scandinavian countries.
Nirodbaran: It is said that the Germans will now make a drive towards Paris instead of England.
Sri Aurobindo: That is one of the possibilities. Otherwise if the French consolidate their position in the north, it will be difficult for the Germans to penetrate. So they may think of striking.
Satyendra: And if Italy comes in, it will be difficult for France.
Nirodbaran: Italy’s coming in means the extension of the war to the Balkans too.
Sri Aurobindo: That depends on Mussolini. He may do it later on after winning the war, provided Hitler does not come in the way.
Satyendra: If Spain also comes in, it will make it still worse for France.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, attack on three sides.
Nirodbaran: But Spain has not yet recovered.
Purani: Still, it can attack Gibraltar. The French, of course, can attack through the Pyrenees.
Sri Aurobindo: France would have enough to face before attacking Spain. No, Italy can take possession of Majorca and Minorca and separate France from her colonies with its navy.
Purani: Also she can establish an air base. Spain’s change of attitude may have been helped by Pétain’s departure too.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. France has had such dangers before, as Reynaud says. She has been invaded a hundred times. But England is in a dangerous position only now. Even during Napoleon’s time she had her allies in Europe. Now she has only France to rely upon.
Nirodbaran: We do not hear of Gamelin now.
Sri Aurobindo (laughing): No.
Nirodbaran: Has he committed suicide then?
Sri Aurobindo: No, he has been relieved of his duty.
Nirodbaran: The Amrita Bazar says that the failure to blow up a bridge on the Meuse was responsible for the German penetration.
Sri Aurobindo: That is one reason, but Gamelin’s disposition and his placing of troops under X, was weak.
Nirodbaran: India is increasing her defence measures now, by three or four times.
Satyendra: From seventy to eighty aeroplanes, perhaps. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: The Indian Navy is said to be having a portentous force. (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: The chance of Gandhi’s starting his civil disobedience is getting more and more remote.
Satyendra: He does not want to embarrass the British now.
Sri Aurobindo: Also he says that the Congress and the country are not non-violent enough. If he waits for everybody to become non-violent, he will never be able to start it.
Nirodbaran: I think he just says it in order to prepare the people. In fact he does not want to start it now.
Sri Aurobindo: He would have come to a compromise but for Bose with his Forward Bloc and Nehru.
Purani: He wants England to be in a better position before he starts the civil disobedience. But with Italy and Spain coming in …
Sri Aurobindo: It will be much worse. By the way, have you seen that Nehru is prepared to shed his blood for the country against Hitler?
Satyendra: He wants to be recruited.
Evening
Sri Aurobindo (addressing Purani): Have you seen that history repeats itself? Germany dropped two bombs on England and killed only a chicken! (Laughter)
Purani: Yes, yes. It must be a joke.
Champaklal: In the morning it was a donkey and a goat and now a chicken!
Purani: Bombing from the air does not seem to be as effective as they think it to be. There is a lot of waste, for many bombs miss the target.
Sri Aurobindo: To hit properly the plane has to come down very low, but then it exposes itself to the anti-aircraft guns, while from a height it can’t aim correctly.
Satyendra: What is the news about the British Expeditionary Force evacuation?
Sri Aurobindo: It is very confused. They say that four-fifths have been removed. Since Lord Gort is in England, it may be true. But there is no news of the unfortunate Prioux.
Purani: Italy seems to be preparing to enter the war. France will have to face another menace.
Satyendra: We thought that if Italy joined it would be advantageous for the Allies. It will enable them to make an offensive.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but just after this great struggle in Flanders the Allies have become weak. If at this moment Italy gives a blow, it may be serious.
Purani: If Spain also joins then there will be a double menace.
Sri Aurobindo: Spain has sent a military mission – not any general. That does not necessarily mean anything; of course it may, but it need not. If Spain joins, it will be at the mercy of Germany and Italy if they win. And besides there are many discontented elements in Spain who are waiting for an opportunity to revolt. If Spain joins, they will at once seize the opportunity.
Purani: Spain can take possession of Majorca and Minorca at once.
Sri Aurobindo: Perhaps it will wait for Italy to take them. The Spanish are a virtuous people and think that virtue will win in the end. (after some time) You have seen that in India everybody is prepared to shed his blood. (Laughter) Asaf Ah is not satisfied with the defence measures.
Nirodbaran: The commander-in-chief says that we have everything except technicians.
Purani: All the tanks and mechanised units of the Germans have people who are skilled technicians as well, so that they may repair at once anything that goes wrong.
Sri Aurobindo: Not only that but there are highly trained soldiers in the mechanised units. It is because the British were raw in Norway that they could not cope with the Germans. In Flanders, though the B.E.F. were territorials, they have been trained for a long number of years. When Napoleon was thinking of attacking England and was preparing the navy, a general said to him, “It is very well to talk like that. To train a sailor requires many years, while a soldier can be trained in just six months.” Napoleon said, “Don’t talk like that. A soldier requires at least two years’ training.”
Purani: Gandhi said the same thing as you do. He said it would require at least twenty-five years for India to prepare herself for defence.
Sri Aurobindo: That is obvious to everybody.
Purani (After a while): Somebody in Gujarat has prophesied that Hitler’s decline will begin in June – that is, now.
Sri Aurobindo (laughing): That fulfils my prophecy – which I myself never made! Some Anglo-French woman said that the sage of the Ashram had prophesied that Hitler’s decline would come in May. The decline will really depend on the strength of the French line. They have now built it up.
Purani: In the last war, they threw in a large number of men against the Germans coming to Paris. It was an immense sacrifice against all military codes. “Not to Paris at any cost,” was their resolve. And the German attack slowed down.
Sri Aurobindo: The credit for it went to (name missed).
Krishnalal’s picture of a terrified monkey clasping her young one in protection was shown to Sri Aurobindo.
Sri Aurobindo: Have you seen the photo of two refugees cowering from the explosion of bombs? (Laughter) These monkeys look very much like those refugees.
1 The mother of Gabriel Monod-Herzen.
2 Margaret Woodrow Wilson.