Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

26 June 1940

Purani: Hitler has presented a plan for the federation of continental Europe from which England and Russia will be barred. This man is full of ideas.

Sri Aurobindo: His New World Order?

Purani: Yes, Europe will be divided into three blocks: they will have no armies.

Sri Aurobindo: Wait a minute. How will the blocks be formed?

Purani: One block in the Balkans, one in Belgium, Holland, France, etc., and another in Spain, Portugal and other countries, I suppose. They won’t have any armies. Hitler alone will have an army.

Sri Aurobindo: Of course, small nations won’t be able to resist, except Franco’s Spain, and she can have some weight and Turkey too can resist.

Nirodbaran: Italy’s claims, as we see from the published terms of the armistice signed with her, seem to be mild. No territorial claims, only the French Mediterranean ports to be demilitarised.

Sri Aurobindo: After which she can easily seize them whenever she wants to. She may reserve territorial claims for the peace treaty.

Nirodbaran: There has been a warning that Hitler may ask Italy to be mild now in order to lull the French people into a false sense of security.

Satyendra: The French fleet has been demobilised already, Churchill says, and is under German control.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh, he has said that?

Nirodbaran: Yes, in the morning news it was announced. Of course one doesn’t know if it is the whole fleet or only a part. This is Pétain’s free Government!

Sri Aurobindo: Pétain means that the French are not ruled by Germany as are the people of Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Satyendra: And they may expect good terms during the peace talks.

Sri Aurobindo: Even if good terms are given, Hitler will see to it that France has no power to rise again.

Satyendra: The newspaper seems to say that Britain has recognised the Pétain Government. After all there is no gain whether they do or do not. France can’t help England even if she wants to.

Nirodbaran: Even if she could, would she?

Sri Aurobindo: She would; she could send goods, but no commerce seems to be allowed by Hitler. France will be terribly impoverished.

Purani: She can trade with Italy and Germany.

Sri Aurobindo: That is across land but if any trade is allowed by sea, it will only be under German control.

Satyendra: Why don’t the colonies come to any decision? They must do it quickly, when the enthusiasm prevails.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, they may be waiting for the full ratification of the truce. If they recognise the Government, they will be demilitarised and Japan will easily walk into Indo-China.

Purani: In the paper there is a scheme of how the German parachutists will land in England, how they will be equipped, etc.

Nirodbaran: Parachutes have not been very successful in France.

Sri Aurobindo: No, most of the parachutists have been killed. In England they won’t be successful at all. Parachutists are of no use unless they are followed up by the army.

Purani: It seems some French officers have approached the British consul with their offer of fighting along with the British.

The customs regulations have become tighter. The pass that was allowed to French officers is no longer valid.

Sri Aurobindo: Of course they are justified now. If the Government had sided with the British, many of the regulations would have been relaxed.

Satyendra: The British Government has consented to buy one lakh tons of Indian sugar subject to the approval of the International Sugar Committee.

Sri Aurobindo: Good Lord!

Satyendra: But where is the International Committee now? (Laughter)

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.

Satyendra: At such a time they are quibbling over law!

Sri Aurobindo: The English people are legal-minded. If they want to break a law they must do it legally. So also with their morality. If they do anything immoral, they do it in a moral-seeming way so as to preserve their righteousness. (Laughter)

Purani: Dr. Rao has retired.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh, now the P.A. will dance with joy.

Nirodbaran: But will the Congress Ministry come to power?

Sri Aurobindo: Don’t see any chance now.

Evening

Purani: Japan says she recognises only the Bordeaux Government.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Of course!

Purani: There is unconfirmed news that Japan has either entered twenty miles inside Indo-China or spread along the frontier.

Sri Aurobindo: Inside means she is going to occupy the country.

Nirodbaran: But it was said that all frontiers had been closed.

Satyendra: The colonies are still undecided. Are they going to recognise Bordeaux too?

Sri Aurobindo: Then they will have to be demilitarised and Japan will easily walk in. The colonies say that they are all willing to fight.

Nirodbaran: Not a very determined attitude. They seem to be hesitating.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and Churchill’s speech also is more hesitating than it ought to be. They will go on fighting till they are demilitarised, I suppose.

Nirodbaran: They are hesitating because of the National Committee. They ought to declare the personnel.

Satyendra: They should do it soon.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if they don’t, they will let the psychological moment pass.

Satyendra: There is no news of Mandel or Reynaud.

Sri Aurobindo: Some say that Reynaud is in America. I don’t see why they can’t come together. There may be some reason for their hiding.

Have you seen Hoover’s statement? He says that America must prepare for her defence and only help the Allies to a certain limit so that her own resources may be kept intact for her own defence. Besides, he says, helping the Allies will be bad for the Allies. (Laughter) He is using this as a political stunt against Roosevelt and is trying to preach his isolationism. The world is getting queer. No wonder the British consul says it is Kaliyuga. (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: The other day, while talking about the Divine Will, you said that Christ knew that he was to be put on the cross and yet one part of him didn’t want it. Did you mean that the crucifixion had been divinely willed?

Sri Aurobindo: That is what the Bible says. It says that Christ came to take the sins of humanity upon himself and deliver humanity from suffering. Even then some parts of his lower vital didn’t want it because of the suffering, the desertion of his disciples and the humiliation. But he felt the suffering on the cross. Otherwise there is no use in suffering. If the suffering is not real there is no meaning in it.

Purani: In our Puranas there are many stories of the Divine’s intervention, not by His omnipotent power but according to the rules of the game.

Sri Aurobindo: Of course, if it were to be by omnipotent power it could be done from above. Why should the Divine come down into a body for it?

Champaklal (after some time): Just a while ago I heard distinctly the Mother’s voice saying, “Hitler will die on the 26th.”

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): That is too good to hope for.

Champaklal: I am not very sure about the date, whether it is the 26th or some other date.

Sri Aurobindo: I don’t care about the date. If he dies it is enough. (Laughter)