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Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo


Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

29 June 1940

Radio news had it that Mittelhauser under Weygand’s persuasion had given up resistance and accepted the armistice.

Purani: There is unconfirmed news that General Nogues is also doing the same.

Sri Aurobindo: It must be true then.

Purani: The Belgian Minister also seems to be negotiating with Hitler about terms on which they can return to Belgium.

Sri Aurobindo: The general is out then!

After his walk Sri Aurobindo took up the discussion again.

Sri Aurobindo: Rajagopalachari is getting uneasy. He says that India is like a pet cat kept in the jungle by the British. (Laughter)

Satyendra: He wants to support the war effort.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, he wants to go to war.

Satyendra: He wants to go back to the Ministry also. It seems about thirteen people voted against him in the Working Committee.

Sri Aurobindo: He is a practical politician. If the colonies surrender, England remains all alone. If she gets India with her, then she can get India’s man-power and resources and in that case America also may join. That is the only way left to meet Hitler. In America the two parties are pro-Allies. I hope she will have the grace to do what is necessary.

Satyendra: I don’t think the British are likely to concede anything to India yet. They will say, “If we go down, let them go also”, and if they want to retain authority after the war, they won’t want to arm India. Besides, it is very difficult to part with power.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes!

Nirodbaran: The English psychology is to give in when they are forced to and no other way is left. Otherwise they don’t act.

Sri Aurobindo: If they want to act, they can do so provided they have the right man. For instance after the Boer War, Sir Campbell Bannerman gave self-government to South Africa. Self-government has also been granted to Iraq and to Egypt. In Egypt they have kept control of the Suez only. That is the advantage of England over Germany, that you can deal with England, while with Germany – (Sri Aurobindo began to shake his head.)

Nirodbaran: I suppose Britain has a fear that we may not help her in the war if Dominion Status is given.

Sri Aurobindo: There can be an understanding. I hope the Viceroy will come to an agreement with Gandhi. If the Government does not want to make any advancement on previous terms why do they call these people?

Satyendra: What is the Congress’ stand now?

Sri Aurobindo: Constituent Assembly, I suppose, Ramgarh Resolution.

Nirodbaran: The Congress’ stand is to sit, till their demand of Constituent Assembly is acceded to.

Sri Aurobindo: I suppose it is Nehru who leads now.

Nirodbaran: Now that the Viceroy has four Muslim Ministers on his side he can easily make some compromise between the Congress and the League.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.

Purani: The best way is for the Viceroy to tell Jinnah that he is going to give self-government to India in spite of the League’s refusal and resistance and if Jinnah goes against it, he will be brought under the Defence Act. One thing Jinnah is afraid of is jail. He will never go to jail. That is the only way. (Sri Aurobindo began to smile.)

Satyendra: It seems Hertzog is also clamouring in Africa for peace with Germany.

Nirodbaran: That he has been doing since the beginning of the war.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, that means there will be a split there, Natal and Cape Town are mostly English and they will form a separate state. The others want white domination in Africa over Indians and natives. The old race superiority under German rule – they can safely carry it through.

This Mittelhauser has been brandishing his sword all the time and now he quietly puts it down.

Purani: Now German and French troops will kiss and embrace as in Bessarabia.

Satyendra: But why did he brandish it at all? He could as well have kept it inside.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. If Africa also accepts, then it will be difficult for Indo-China and Madagascar to hold out.

Purani: The Belgian Minister also is speaking of submitting.

Sri Aurobindo: Like Norway?

Satyendra: Only Poland remains.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, Poland has the best record so far.

Satyendra: The Poles won’t submit, I hope.

Sri Aurobindo: No, they are not politicians.

Purani: Besides, they have nothing to gain. Their whole country is now under Nazi rule.

Sri Aurobindo: They have had long training in resistance to subjection and they have never yielded.

Satyendra: When the world becomes free from Nazi domination, France should be kept in subjection.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Yes, she doesn’t deserve freedom.

Evening

Sri Aurobindo: Pétain seems to have adopted the Fascist method. He has arrested Mandel and said it was by mistake. When Mandel demanded that, in that case, he should make a public apology or keep him in custody, he kept him in custody. Then this motor accident of Reynaud looks a suspicious affair, nobody knows where he is. If it is an accident everybody ought to know where he is. Either they have tried to assassinate him or Reynaud has used it as a cover to escape.

Satyendra: Why has Mittelhauser given up resistance?

Sri Aurobindo: Weygand, it seems, flew to Syria and persuaded him.

Purani: I think he must have said that the colonies wouldn’t be touched and that they would remain with France after the peace.

Sri Aurobindo: Are they such fools as to believe in Hitler’s words?

Nirodbaran: It would be surprising indeed if even now they were taken in by him.

Sri Aurobindo: That is the Asuric influence cast all over the world. The Mother says that in Apocalypse there is a prophecy that before the millennium when the anti-Christ will come everybody will believe in his sweet words and be deceived and no one will judge him by his acts.

Satyendra: Japan also is turning Fascist.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, she has asked for “hands off the East” and is trying to adopt an Eastern Monroe Doctrine. But that has been her well-established policy for thirty or forty years, to drive out the Europeans from the East. Now is the best opportunity for her.

Nirodbaran: I won’t be surprised if France uses her army against England.

Satyendra: That will be the last step.

Sri Aurobindo: That is what Weygand must have told Mittelhauser – that the French should get whatever they can. Japan is not like Hitler. She can wait patiently, but she never gives up her policy. When the right time comes she will strike.

Satyendra: She has recognised the Bordeaux Government.

Sri Aurobindo: Of course. The Bordeaux Government has accepted Japan’s demand not to send arms to China through Indo-China.

Nirodbaran: But Japan intends to occupy it, it seems, unless America comes in.

Sri Aurobindo: America can’t do anything because Japan will come by land. In the Dutch Indies America could have intervened with her fleet. That is why Japan kept quiet.

Nirodbaran: Britain is now all alone; she hasn’t replied to the Japanese note yet.

Sri Aurobindo: All my life I have wanted the downfall of the British Empire, but the way it is being done is beyond all expectation and makes me wish for British victory. And if I want England to win, it is not for the Empire’s own sake but because the world under Hitler will be much worse.

Nirodbaran: The world is already getting darker and darker.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but that has been foreseen.

Satyendra: Foreseen by whom?

Sri Aurobindo: Foreseen since the age of the Bible that the Asura will dominate the world for a time. (After a while) Gandhi’s interview with the Viceroy seems to be the same old story. There is likely to be no change in Simla’s attitude. Poor Gandhi, he was in such high spirits! Simla’s atmosphere has spoiled Linlithgow, it seems.

Nirodbaran: Roosevelt has invited Wilkie, the Republican candidate, for a talk.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, to discuss the defence policy – to ask whether he will follow the same policy. He is also pro-Allies.

Purani: Nishtha says nobody knew him in America and he is a big businessman.

Sri Aurobindo: Because he is from the West? Perhaps.

Satyendra: Dr. Kher has given a lecture in favour of a war committee and asked everybody to sink all differences now. He has tried to imitate Rajagopalachari by using metaphors and examples. He says that India and England are two goats; the Indian goat must allow the English one to pass over her.

Sri Aurobindo: Rajagopalachari’s examples are more apt and come more easily. The example of the pet cat is a very fine phrase and it describes the situation exactly.