Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
6 July 1940
Purani: There is a German order that ships must keep twelve to twenty miles off the French coast. I suppose it may apply to colonies too.
Sri Aurobindo: Even if the ships come nearer, what can Pondicherry do? It has no guns.
Purani: Mohanlal says he saw three sepoys with guns on the pier.
Sri Aurobindo: To shoot British warships? It seems all communications, trains, etc. are going to be stopped between Madras and Pondicherry. The people are in a panic. Hitler has declared that the French fleet is not to be demobilised, (Laughter) because he can’t get at it and he has threatened Turkey and Yugoslavia. It depends now on what Russia will do because it will be dangerous for Russia to allow Hitler to get control of Turkey which means control of the Dardanelles also, an entry into Asia Minor. The position will then be that except for Russia and Britain everybody will be under Hitler. Spain is practically under his thumb. That is the New World Order, I suppose. Only North Africa will be out of it, since it is being guarded by the British navy.
Purani: I suppose Turkey will consult Russia before yielding.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Everybody is climbing down. Have you noted that Cordell Hull said that America won’t participate in European politics? America will only concern itself with trade!
Nirodbaran: For some time America has been following that policy.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Nirodbaran: I wonder if it is because of the impending election. On the other hand Knox and other Republicans have said that Britain’s defence is their own defence. Are there only two parties in America?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but there is a split in the parties. The Democratic Party is solidly behind Roosevelt, I think, while in the Republican Party there are isolationists, interventionists, etc.
Purani: France has cut off all diplomatic relations with England, Germany says. In that case the Indian Government will naturally take stern measures and they won’t hesitate to take possession of Pondicherry.
Sri Aurobindo: Diplomatic relations are already cut off here. It seems the Consul has gone to the North with the Vice-Consul. When the British Consul asked the Governor why he was hesitating, he replied, “Your own Government has not decided what to do.” That is practically a refusal.
Nirodbaran: But he could have acted like Indo-China and the British status quo.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but what if he wants to go back to France? The Pétain Government will be there.
Nirodbaran: Is Hitler trying to checkmate Russia in Turkey or working in league with Russia?
Sri Aurobindo: Don’t know. But Stalin and Molotov would be off their heads to allow Hitler to get Turkey. Hitler would next occupy Asia Minor and then Asia. Then Jawaharlal might think that the invasion of India has become real.
Nirodbaran: Can’t say. He still might not believe it.
Sri Aurobindo: He might say that there are mountains, deserts, etc!
Nirodbaran: But Turkey is in a better position. She has the Allies on her side.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but there is Syria in between. The British will have to occupy it first.
Satyendra: Hitler has made a calculated move. He has first alienated Syria, then he will impose himself on Turkey. He and Italy have warned Turkey and Yugoslavia against an independent policy.
Sri Aurobindo: If Kemal were there, he would never submit. I don’t know about these other people.
Nirodbaran: Italy calls Churchill a criminal gangster because of his action against the French fleet.
Sri Aurobindo: Italy? Of course. A gangster like Mussolini?
Satyendra: Where was the Italian fleet at that time?
Sri Aurobindo: Italy said that it couldn’t arrive in time.
Nirodbaran: Italy has thrown a challenge to the British navy to come to the Italian naval base.
Sri Aurobindo: The fact is that the Italian fleet is hiding in the Adriatic. (Laughter)
Evening
Purani: There was a great rush at the bank to exchange French notes for British money.
Nirodbaran: So Pondicherry is becoming a British colony? And diplomatic relations also seem to have been cut off.
Sri Aurobindo: The French chargé d’affaires in London has resigned. But why “resigned”? They are called back in such cases. Is it a new term?
Purani: Perhaps he is in sympathy with the British and so has sent his resignation to Pétain. The French fleet has been asked to scuttle itself.
Sri Aurobindo: The British also have made a similar offer to sink it.
Dr. Rao: What do you think of Gandhi’s offer to the British?
Sri Aurobindo: The result of the offer here has been that those officers who wanted to fight don’t want to any more. They say, “If submission is heroic, why fight?” The French forces stopped fighting not because they were non-violent but because there was no hope. If there had been any hope they would have fought on.
Purani: Any news of the Congress Working Committee?
Sri Aurobindo: No, they are still holding sessions. Something important seems to be going on there, otherwise they wouldn’t have taken so many days.
Dr. Rao: There is a rumour of a mysterious letter sent by the Viceroy through Aney to Gandhi.
Sri Aurobindo: Rumour from where?
Dr. Rao: The Indian Express. (Laughter)
As Dr. Rao didn’t get the joke about the Indian Express, he looked from one person to another.
Sri Aurobindo: The paper comments that the Simla office circle is hard in its attitude.
Purani: It seems Grig is against any wide reforms.
Sri Aurobindo: It is the resistance of Simla that stands in the way, I am sure the English people would give larger terms. The Manchester Guardian describes the Viceroy as rigid and asks Amery to visit India.