Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

31 July 1940

The Hindu published the information that the Mother and Sri Aurobindo have given Rs. 1000 to the Allied war fund.

Satyendra: It is good Jaswant is in prison. Otherwise he would have sent another letter.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Yes.

Purani: I had a letter from his brother. He is very happy in jail, he says. Put in B class.

Sri Aurobindo: Like Oswald Mosley?

Purani: They had fixed his marriage but due to his imprisonment they had to drop it.

Sri Aurobindo: Why? They couldn’t arrange it in jail?

Purani: Russia has demanded the return of her trucks from Romania.

Sri Aurobindo (smiling): Yes. She seems to be looking for an excuse for a quarrel.

Purani: Romania has given no reply and is perhaps turning to Hitler.

Sri Aurobindo: Hitler will say he is not going to fight Russia over some trucks. He will advise her to settle the affair.

Nirodbaran: As in the case of Hungary, Bulgaria, etc.? If Romania concedes to all of them, very little of her will remain.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and she will be so light that she won’t weigh on the Axis.

Purani: Mandel, Reynaud, Gamelin, etc. are going to be tried, it seems.

Sri Aurobindo: Gamelin for insufficient preparation. In that case Pétain is also to blame. He was Minister of Defence for so many years and he has done nothing. Mandel and others have been betrayed by Nogues. It seems he invited them to Africa to fight from there against Germany and then betrayed them to Pétain. It was very unwise of them to have gone there. This De Gaulle is a remarkable man. He foresaw all these things and knew what was in store for him and left for England beforehand.

(after some time): This book on modern poetry by F.R. Leavis is very heavy reading.

Purani: Nolini also said that. He couldn’t make anything out of it. The author says that the reading public of poetry is getting very small.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and he says it is a very good thing. (Laughter)

Purani: But the number of poets is increasing, he says, and many have talents. But the talent depends on what use society will make of it.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Obviously!

Purani: You have seen at the end of the book what he says about the sale of poetry books?

Sri Aurobindo: No.

Purani: He has quoted a publisher’s statement – very revealing. The publisher says that out of many books published, some – about one dozen – brought twelve pounds altogether from the sale and, as for the rest, he lost almost double the sum.

Sri Aurobindo: You know what an English publisher said when my poems were presented to him by somebody for publication? He said they were very striking but nobody would buy them, as no one read poetry now. He added, “Let the poet write some prose first and make a name and then his poetry may sell.”

Nirodbaran: No wonder people won’t read poetry after what the Modernists have done with it.

Purani: It is the same thing in painting too. I remember how François and Agnes used to cudgel their brains to find out the significance of some bizarre, grotesque pictures.

Sri Aurobindo: Perhaps it was meant only as a joke and no meaning was there. You know the origin of Cubism? Mother used to go among the artists. One day she found that two artists as a joke had made some queer figures but people began to find great originality in them and praise them. Then they took it up seriously. There was a postman who painted a green cow grazing on red grass. People began to remark: “How original! How striking!” and now he is an outstanding painter. I forget his name. (Laughter)

Evening

Nirodbaran: This arrest of a well-known Englishman in Japan on an espionage charge looks fishy.

Sri Aurobindo: Very fishy. The Japanese are showing themselves as masters and want others to submit. For espionage the British give regular training; they don’t employ well-known people in that business.

Nirodbaran: And the death of Knox also is not very convincing. How could he get through the resistance of the gendarmes? As Mother said, the Japanese themselves may have got rid of him to cover up some crime of their own.

Sri Aurobindo: No, the manner of death is not convincing. The Japanese are becoming bullies now. It is the new spirit of the Nazis and Fascists they have got from the West.

Nirodbaran: But I don’t think an Englishman would have done what they say.

Sri Aurobindo: No, not a high-class Englishman. The English and Americans are very haughty and disdainful; they haven’t understood the Japanese as, for instance, people like Lafcadio Hearn did. And they are now being paid back.

Nirodbaran: The English in India have, of course, done worse things.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, in the colonies they are quite different. All other Powers except the French treat their subject races alike.

Nirodbaran: But just when England is involved Japan is taking these steps.

Sri Aurobindo: People show themselves in their true colours in times of danger.

Purani (after some time): Have you seen the Masnavi by Jalaluddin Rumi? A professor from Hyderabad reviewing your Life Divine says that all you’ve said in it about evolution and descent has already been said by Rumi.

Sri Aurobindo: I have glanced at the Masnavi. Yes, Rumi does speak of evolution but it is an individual evolution. Surprisingly he does not mention rebirth. If he admits individual evolution he has to admit rebirth. An individual can’t evolve in one birth only.

Purani: Sufis do admit rebirth, I think, in a way.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh, do they? Rumi speaks of transmigration which is quite a different matter – taking different bodies, animals, birds, etc. Transmigration would bar entrance to other worlds. It would be an immediate process.