Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
13 September 1940
Evening
Purani: Anilbaran seems to hold that the individual has no selective action. He is only an instrument, a puppet, an automaton of the Divine Will. He has no individual choice.
Sri Aurobindo: The individual is also the Supreme.
Satyendra: Yes, it is the Supreme that has become transcendent, universal and individual.
Sri Aurobindo: How does Anilbaran come to his view of the individual?
Purani: He quotes the Gita where Arjuna is said to be an instrument of the Divine.
Satyendra: But why then does Krishna ask him also to be manmana, madbhakta (my-minded, my devotee)?
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. And why does he ask Arjuna to get rid of Ahankara? (Sri Aurobindo quoted the passage.) Who is that “you” there? If he makes the individual a mere puppet, an automaton, my whole philosophy comes to nothing. Doesn’t Anilbaran know that the individual has a Purusha who is free to choose, accepting or rejecting? If according to his idea everything is done by the Divine Will, then a murderer can say that it is the Divine who is committing the murder and in that case there is no necessity of doing Yoga because everything is being done by the Divine Will and so everything is perfect; there is nothing to change. And we shall have to concede Shastri’s demand to supply him with two thousand books because it is the Divine Will! He says everybody doing anything here is right, because it is the universal Divine Force that is acting through him. About Arjuna, even if he was an instrument, he was acting according to his own nature, in his own way, by using his bow, and not like Bhishma and Bhima. There the selective action comes in. Besides, he has been asked nimitta matra bhava, to be an instrument for a particular purpose.
It is true that whatever is the ultimate Divine Will must fulfil itself, but that doesn’t mean the individual has no choice and is an automaton. These are fundamental metaphysical facts true in another plane of consciousness or spirituality. When one brings them down into the practical field, they create great difficulties.
Satyendra: Only one who has gone into such planes of consciousness can say that everything is done by the Divine. In the plane of Ignorance, one can’t say that; we would all come to Maya then.
Purani: Mother also said that each truth has its own plane. What is true on one plane may not be true on another.
Sri Aurobindo: The Supreme takes three positions: transcendent, universal and individual. But it is the position that makes the difference. Here, if the individual doesn’t choose, where is the place of effort? Why do we insist on and demand consent? If we were to act without consent, it would create much difficulty. And, if, after proceeding on a wrong path, one realises it, he won’t be able to come back because it is the Divine Will that has led him there. Then Nolin Bihari and some others would be quite right in saying that the Divine Will was behind all their actions. Even when we contradicted him, he was quite right in insisting on his own way.
Purani: Anilbaran would say that even the selective action is chosen by the Divine.
Sri Aurobindo: Then the individual is the Divine and there is no longer any individual and we come to Shankara. What is the meaning of my insistence on the One and the Many? Anilbaran seems to have a rigid mind. If he reads my philosophy in that way, he will never understand it. It has to be taken as a whole.
(After some time to Purani) You have seen that the Pétain Government is in difficulty.
Purani: Yes. The Axis is threatening them with complete occupation. But it would be good if they did. The French will then be obliged to put up resistance again.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. I hope the news is true.
Purani: People have submitted to all this mainly because of Pétain.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, they thought, “After all it is Pétain!”
Purani: And now if Pétain is forced out, it will be difficult to hold the people.
Sri Aurobindo: Then also, “After all, Pétain?” (Laughter)