Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

21 September 1940

Today’s Hindu published news of Sri Aurobindo’s war contribution and quoted his letter to the Madras Governor, in which Sri Aurobindo said that we give our entire support to the British in their struggle. It is not only a war for self-defence and the defence of nations threatened with world domination by Hitler, but also a war for the preservation of civilisation, etc.

Sri Aurobindo (looking at Purani): So?

Purani: It will be published in all the papers. Gandhi will see it.

Nirodbaran: He may find some light in his groping. (Laughter)

Sri Aurobindo: It is not in his line. They call me a savant.

Purani: Yes.

Nirodbaran: No other savant has contributed anything yet.

Satyendra: The letter has come out at an opportune time.

Sri Aurobindo: Schomberg can no longer say that the Ashram is a nest of Nazis.

Satyendra: This is your first public pronouncement since your retirement.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, though indirect and not given as a pronouncement.

Satyendra: No, but it was meant to be.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes.

Satyendra: But as regards India, the British are not very lovable.

Sri Aurobindo: Lovable? Nobody said they were lovable. They never were. But the question is to love Hitler less. (Laughter)

Purani: Some American correspondent has said the British forces are waiting in Egypt for the Italians to come out like tortoise heads, and then they will chop them off.

Sri Aurobindo: Of course if the British can face them, the Italians will have the disadvantage of having the desert at their back.

Satyendra: Egypt may declare war now.

Sri Aurobindo: Why?

Satyendra: The marriage of some prince of theirs is over. (Laughter)

Purani: Oh, the brother of the Hyderabad princess, the legal heir to the Sultan. He would have become the next Sultan if he had been in Turkey.

Sri Aurobindo: No.

Purani: I see; he would have been killed!

Sri Aurobindo: This Egyptian ministry can’t raise popular enthusiasm. Nahash Pasha could have.

Evening

Sri Aurobindo: So New Caledonia has revolted against the Pétain Government?

Purani: Yes.

Satyendra: Where is New Caledonia?

Sri Aurobindo: It is a small island near Australia.

Purani: There are some volunteers here who want to join De Gaulle.

Sri Aurobindo: Have they declared themselves? They have to do that first. But do they know that they are to be shot by the Pétain Government? You have heard the story of the French Consul in Bombay? It seems that somebody painted the Croix de Lorraine on his door at night. Most Frenchmen in Bombay are for De Gaulle, while he is for Pétain. He wanted to report to Pétain against some of these sympathisers, but as he could not do it from Bombay, he went to Kabul and telegraphed from there. The reply came that the sympathisers are to be shot. Now after his return to Bombay, somebody phones him every morning saying, “Ulysse, are you still proving yourself to be a traitor to your country?” (Laughter)

Purani: But the condition in France is none too happy.

Sri Aurobindo: No. Hitler is putting pressure on Pétain. The Germans are plundering whatever they can in the non-occupied territories and withholding payment from the banks. They have released French prisoners from Germany and are sending them to Pétain to avoid a shortage of food in Germany. Pétain is being tolerated only for the sake of the colonies. It seems the Germans and Italians have already divided the colonies between themselves. Italy is to take Tunis, Corsica and Morocco, while Germany will get West Africa.

After some time Purani spoke about Tagore’s new interpretation of an ancient Indian history of the Ramayana period – Itihasher Dhara. Tagore seems to hold that: (1) Rama, Vishwamitra and Janaka are the three forces combined into one that moulded the ancient social life; (2) the fact that Sita was found on cultivated ground indicates that she is a symbol of agriculture; (3) the Kshatriyas were really the ones responsible for the growth of culture and civilisation while the Brahmins were only its preservers.

Sri Aurobindo: All these are old European ideas. He is not even being original. They are as old as the hills.