Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

1 October 1940

Purani: Hitler hasn’t given up the idea of attacking Britain. He is concentrating his forces in Norway.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. About 200,000 troops are practising jumping into the sea from the rocks! Is it a preparation, in case of reversal, to swim back from England?

Any news about Gandhi’s second interview with the Viceroy?

Purani: No, there is conjecture that Gandhi may have urged the release of the politicals.

Sri Aurobindo: That means there must have been some settlement.

Satyendra: The Muslim League has also refused.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Jinnah wants to know what the League’s status will be in case some other party comes in later. He means Congress! It is like the Berlin-Japan pact – by some other power they mean the U.S.A.

Satyendra: Jinnah has realised that the Viceroy doesn’t want to part with power.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): To the Muslim League? No! The Government is in an impossible position. Congress wants Dominion Status now and, declaration of independence after the war; at the same time it refuses to say that it will support Britain in the war and speaks only of the defence of India. The Muslims want Pakistan with a fifty per cent representation everywhere. The Hindu Mahasabha demands one quarter of the seats to be given to Muslims.

Satyendra: The Muslim League wants to know the number of members in the council and the personnel having portfolios.

Sri Aurobindo: How can the Government say this now? There seems to be a new age of inspiration, not of reason. Pakistan, Hindustan, the Khaksars, all are inspired and inspiration is sacred. Gandhi is more rational.

Satyendra: He has been till now. This affair about freedom of speech has spoiled his reputation a bit.

Sri Aurobindo: Even after independence there may be civil strife and some dictatorship may be needed.

Purani: Gandhi doesn’t want war.

Sri Aurobindo: No, no government by force. But if the Khaksars start violence how will he prevent it, or how will he prevent the goondas who take joy in beating and killing? Does Gandhi know that the Nazis are trained to beat people as part of their duty? What will he do then? The British people have two things: first, they are afraid of world opinion; second, they want to play hide-and-seek with their conscience. If it is exposed, they begin to scratch their heads. But the Nazis have no conscience to deal with and no world opinion to reckon with.

Nirodbaran: This story about Reynaud’s mistress was in the Indian Express.

Satyendra (smiling): Yes. I read it there but I thought it might have been in the Sunday Times, too, when Purani said that.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Purani’s subconscious thought that the Sunday Times was more respectable than the Indian Express. (Laughter)

Evening

Purani: Gandhi’s freedom of speech hasn’t been granted by the Viceroy.

Sri Aurobindo: No.

Purani: Gandhi takes up some theoretical issue. C.R. would have been much better in such cases. He has practical sense.

Sri Aurobindo: The Viceroy has referred to conscientious objectors in England and says that they are not allowed to preach against war among munitions workers.

Satyendra: Gandhi says the conditions in India are different.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and he says that though he won’t himself preach, others must have the right to do so, if they want – people like Bose. How can any government allow that?

Purani: The Jinnah-Viceroy correspondence is out.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, it is full of impossible demands. The Viceroy has answered to them, “Yes, I note them. We will consider them.” All the time he must be thinking what a fool Jinnah is that he doesn’t understand what impossible demands he is making.

Purani: Gandhi speaks of freedom of speech. But even during the Congress regime, that was not given to the Socialists, even by C.R.

Sri Aurobindo: M.N. Roy is cogent. He said, “You talk of freedom of speech, but don’t tolerate anybody criticising you.”

Satyendra: But he belongs to an organisation which is fighting.

Sri Aurobindo: So is England. Besides, Roy is not in the Executive of the Congress so he can’t criticise it. He is only a member. Congress has two contradictions. If it is an army then it’s all right not to allow any freedom of speech, but if it is a democratic organisation how can freedom of speech be disallowed?

Satyendra: There is no review of the second volume of The Life Divine yet.

Sri Aurobindo: No, they will take six months to finish it and, after finishing, they won’t know what to say.