Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
6 January 1941
Dr. Manilal: The Mother says in her Conversations that one can progress without meditation.
Sri Aurobindo: Can’t say anything without the context. In that case the whole world would progress.
Purani: No, the Mother says about those who can’t meditate that through work they can progress in sadhana.
Sri Aurobindo: That is different. There are people here who can’t meditate at all but are working all the time and they receive through their work. (Addressing Dr. Manilal) But you have no excuse. You can meditate. You go into deep meditation, though not quite like a Tirthankara. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: I couldn’t be a Tirthankara, Sir, otherwise I wouldn’t have been born again.
Purani: Why? Are Tirthankaras afraid of life?
Sri Aurobindo: No, afraid of Pudgal1. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: Might I have been a Jain in my previous birth, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: Certainly, since you know all about Jainism but don’t follow it. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: Is it a tragedy, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: No, your knowledge comes from a previous birth; you don’t follow because it is not necessary – you have done it already.
Dr. Manilal: How to pass through the stage of sleep in meditation?
Sri Aurobindo: Is it sleep or going within?
Dr. Manilal: Well, I don’t know. Sometimes I seem to come out of a deep sleep knowing or remembering nothing about where I have been. Sometimes, I see many incoherent things but can’t remember them.
Sri Aurobindo: That is the border of the Subconscience. Before sitting, one has to fix a will to be conscious; the result comes afterwards.
Champaklal: I also seem to be going somewhere very deep; it is very pleasant and nice there. One would like to be there for ever.
Sri Aurobindo: That is the inner being. You feel like Shankaracharya who said, “I went somewhere to a region of Bliss. I wish I could remain there.”
After this, the talk turned to the Hindu Mahasabha, whose conference was taking place in Madurai.
Dr. Manilal: The Mahasabha people are in favour of giving help to Britain but they also want India’s freedom. I don’t understand Gandhi’s attitude at all. There is no question of his being insincere but his stand and actions are not very clear.
Nirodbaran: Some say he is not sincere. As proof they cite the fact of his pledging unconditional support at the beginning and then making a somersault, saying that we are not making a bargain when it is nothing but that.
Sri Aurobindo: The question is, when is a bargain not a bargain, like the question, when is killing not killing.
Dr. Manilal (à propos of Abhay’s father who suddenly lost his sight due to cataract): There is no cure for a cataract except an operation when it is mature, unless Dr. Agarwal can do something. But I think gazing at the sun may sometimes destroy the eye.
Sri Aurobindo: It depends on how one does it. Sun-gazing has been done in India since time immemorial. I myself have done it and there are people here who have regained their sight and discarded glasses by the practice.
Purani: I have done it too. For many years I used to gaze at strong sunlight. But I gave it up after what happened once during meditation. There was a great descent of force then suddenly I felt a severe pain in my eye.
Sri Aurobindo: It must have been an attack.
Mulshankar: In meditation also can the hostile forces attack?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not? It is their business to do so at any time.
Mulshankar: Is there no protection from the Divine? Purani is quite strong.
Sri Aurobindo: Strength and protection are not the same thing. So long as there is a weak spot one is liable to attack unless one puts it right oneself.
1 Body, matter.