The Mother

Agenda

Volume 10

October 18, 1969

Today is Durga puja .... I have a lion under my feet, you know!

(the cushion under Mother's feet)

Pull it .... (Laughing) It's nice! It keeps still.

So what are you bringing?... Nothing. Today it's not very late!...

Haven't you anything?... Neither have I, except for news of A.R. He is in his hut and says he is very fine, but he's worrying a bit: “Wouldn't I be more useful if I saw people?...” I had him answered that he himself had said he needed to be alone. He had two hernias and cured one (he told you all that), and deliberately didn't cure the second because he got it into his head that when he has the true consciousness, it will heal on its own .... Theoretically it's true, but... Can it be realized in one lifetime? I don't know. As for me, I saw that if he brought it back inside (it can be done), it would heal. But he refuses to do that – what he is asking is almost a miracle .... So he had me asked through F. if he shouldn't rather start seeing people again. I said, “That's exclusively HIS business, it's for him to know what he wants.” Not “what he wants”: what he MUST do – receive the Order and do what he must. Me, I can't say anything. I gave him the physical conditions he wanted. When you told me about it, I saw (I saw, I concentrated), I clearly saw that if he brought his hernia back inside, it would heal. But he refuses to do that. So I don't know anymore. You see, what he says is theoretically quite true, but... But...

He himself has worked several miracles on others.

Yes, he did, he can do it. It's possible; I tell you, theoretically it's quite possible – we'll see.

But what sort of realization is he lacking?

I don't know. He had me told that he wanted to be able to say, “I am.”¹ And the “I” is, I think, the Consciousness (I don't know if he has a notion of the Divine or of a “supreme Harmony” or what, I don't know – maybe he himself doesn't know). That's what he wants: to be able to say, “I am....” For me, the process is... I say there's nothing impossible, but I much prefer the process, “You are.” You understand, let the “I” disappear.

But this man doesn't have an “I.”

He has one. He's extremely generous and disinterested, but he has one.

Yet I never felt he said, “I heal.”

(after a silence)

I have a strong impression that what he wants to pull... He says, “The Divine is in everything,” and he wants to say, “I am the Divine.” From the (how should I put it?) yogic point of view, from the point of view of discipline, I found it much preferable to say, “You are” rather than “I am.” Do you understand the difference?

I do understand.

And that's because he still has very strongly the sense of an individual body.

But since this body stopped having the sense of its individuality, very spontaneously and naturally it has been, “You are” – all the cells, every cell: You are.

For the cells, there's no “I.”

Only, everyone has quite conceivably his own path, which is why I didn't tell him, “Don't do this.” I took great care not to say that.

Yes, because after his realization, he has been very influenced by the teachings of the Swamis, for whom it's always, “You are That.”²

They're wrong.

That is to say, for the entire old Indian yoga, the body is something untransformable, and therefore it's a momentary necessity that will disappear; while for Sri Aurobindo, the body is transformable, and the minute it's transformable, instead of thinking of itself as an individual, it thinks of itself as the Lord. And, you know, I guarantee that it's spontaneous, natural, and... blissful. While the idea of a separate person is a painful calamity.

I was with A.R. when he meditated here... his body is still ONE body.

But he has the realization of “That.”

Yes, yes, in a certain way.

And that's why (because he is very conscious of the Divine Presence), that's why I said, “Don't ask me what you should do: it's in your body that you must find out.” I can't say, because... because the Divine realizes himself differently in everyone – otherwise there would be only one person!

I don't want to give him any advice at all, I absolutely refuse to do that.

What I find remarkable in his case is the way in which he has EMBODIED his realization, because it's really not something he has cross-legged in meditation: he is solidly full of this Consciousness. One feels it, I mean. That's what I find rather extraordinary.

(after a silence)

But here in India, that stillness comes from contempt for the body: it must be nullified as much as possible. Its very existence must be nullified. And that's precisely what Sri Aurobindo rose up against, saying, “No! The body must PARTICIPATE in the experience.” So naturally, A.R. is convinced that the body must participate in the experience, that's why he has the right attitude. But to be convinced, he wants to realize NOW the consciousness that will be the consciousness of what Sri Aurobindo calls the Supramental. That is to say, to BE the Divine, without distinction between the body and the rest-to be the Divine ....

If the time has come for that, it's very good – that's why I don't want to intervene. But I don't know, I don't know if the time has come for that .... There are moments when the body is thoroughly convinced – moments when it seems impossible that the time might not have come – but at other moments, it gets completely veiled. And that comes from the fact that despite everything, the awareness of the mixture is becoming very clear. Which means that the realization is partial; it's partial, fragmentary. And for a very simple reason (there's no arguing): it's because somehow or other, the appearance will have to change. This body has capacities – that's visible-it has capacities which many other bodies don't have, but it's still uncertain, not established, not complete. So in this transitional period, there will certainly be one who will get through to the other side, that is, who will reach realization – there has to be a realization at some point, you see. Well, it must be... In any case, with A.R., the attitude is good, so there's nothing to say. But as he isn't developed mentally, that's where a mixture of influences remains³ – that's where. It's not in the body, it's in the mind. And I don't want to replace that mixture with a... (Mother gestures to show an authority imposing itself).... All that I can do is to give the necessary atmosphere, and that's that.

I got a letter from N.S.⁴ in which she said she was almost desperate to have missed the appointment I had given her with A.R. But I am not sure... [that it wasn't just as well]. She says that instead of the time she had been told, she arrived an hour later because she had been somewhere (I forget where), had got completely drenched, and had to change her clothes; she sent word to A.R. requesting him to wait, but when she arrived, he had left. So she doesn't know whether L. didn't get her message, or didn't convey it. And she writes me that at the first opportunity she would like to come and see him .... I had her told that for the moment he had withdrawn, but that as soon as he resumed his activity, I would let her know. But I didn't tell A.R., because...

For her own sake I wish N.S. meets him, but I don't at all wish he should start expounding to her his great plans for the conversion of India!⁵

That, of course! I can certainly guarantee that the time hasn't come!

I hope he won't drive N. S. into... useless things.

That's why he didn't meet her!... You see, all that takes place takes place PURPOSELY. We find that very hard to understand, but... one begins to understand it here (Mother points to her body), and when I was told they hadn't met, I thought, “It's very wise, this isn't the right time.”

Yes, I think so.

That's why I told N.S. I would let her know. So we'll see.

But with this man, I feel I am in front of a secret which I, for one, would need to realize and understand.

Yes, yes.

That's the impression he gives me: he holds something that I would need.

Yes. And what has enabled him to “hold” it is that the mind isn't developed. The proportion of the mind in the combination of the being is sufficiently... poor not to intervene.

It's like that. For a PERFECT realization, the entire being must be illumined; but for an initial realization, it's probably easier for a body that doesn't have a highly developed mind. Since he came here, I've looked a good deal, and I am fully convinced of it. That's why he... You see, for us who have gone up to the highest degree of mental potentiality, it's through that highest degree that we went beyond – it's when the mind realized its highest degree that it abdicated – and that's very good for the integral realization, but generally the body is too accustomed to obeying the mind, not supple enough to be transformed. That's the reason why my mind was sent away .... But that's not a process which can be... recommended to others. Because nine people out of ten would die.

The mind?

If the mind goes away.

Do you think I would die?

Mind and vital.

Ah, yes, the vital, I understand, but if you took my mind away...?

No, mon petit! I refuse to do it! (Mother laughs) It must... it must abdicate.

It hasn't abdicated, my mind?

Yes. Abdicate and fall silent.

I have the impression of a missing link between “Something” I very clearly feel up above, something concrete, and then this reality I live.

That's very material.

But I have the impression of something missing, a link, something...

Not a “link”...

It's more a passivity that would be missing. Everything is too active.

And for the Force to be able to go through rapidly so as to reach the body, a GREAT passivity is needed. I can see that: every time there is a pressure so as to act on some part of the body or other, it always begins with an absolute passivity, which is... the “perfection of inertia,” you understand? What inertia imperfectly represents – it's the perfection of that .... Something with no activity of its own – which is VERY difficult precisely for those who have a great mental development, very difficult. Because its whole life long, the body has worked to be in that state of receptivity to the mind, and that state, which is what brought about its obedience, docility and so on, is what needs to be abolished.

How can I explain?... The development through the mind is a constant and general awakening of the whole being – eve.n the most material being – an awakening as a result of which there is also something that's the opposite of sleep. But to receive the supreme Force, what's needed is, on the contrary, the equivalent of stillness – the stillness of sleep, but an ABSOLUTELY CONSCIOUS sleep, absolutely conscious. The body feels the difference. It feels the difference to such a point that... for example, at night I lie down and I am like that, for hours I remain like that, and if after a while I drop into ordinary sleep, my body wakes up with a dreadful anguish! Then it slowly goes back to that State. That anguish, I feel it from time to time – it goes away instantly as soon as the body recaptures the true attitude, which is a state of stillness, but absolutely conscious. “Stillness,” I don't know how to explain that .... It's almost the opposite of inertia in stillness.

That's what now makes me understand why the creation began with inertia. So then, we had to recover that state (Mother draws an immense curve) after going through all the states of consciousness. And that's what has given us... (laughing) for us, it's a fine mess! But when it's done deliberately, it's not a mess any longer.

For me, the difficulty I very often come up against, is a need of activity in the aspiration, too.

Yes, yes.

I feel I shouldn't stop being actively aspiring. Often I could very well let everything be like that, motionless, but...

Yes, but then the aspiration comes.

I feel the need of activity in the aspiration.

Yes, it's to counteract inertia. It's because we still have a legacy of inertia.

But then, what's to be done in that case? Let everything spread out, or else... persist in this active aspiration, which is really intense?

It's hard to say because I am convinced that everyone has his own path, but for this body, the path is to have that active aspiration.

To have active aspiration? Yes, but then it's not that stillness anymore.

It has found the way, it has understood how it can be done.

The two together, the union of the two?

Yes, they are together. That's what it has managed to get: a complete stillness and an INTENSE aspiration. And it's when stillness is left without aspiration that it falls into a dreadful anguish which instantly wakes it up. That's it, you understand: an INTENSE aspiration. And it's absolutely still, still within, as if all the cells grew still .... That must be it: what we call intense aspiration must be the supramental vibration. It must be the divine Vibration, the true divine vibration. I have often said that to myself.

But if even for five minutes the body falls into the state of inertia – stillness without aspiration – it's woken up by an anguish as if it were about to die! To that point, you understand. For it, stillness is... Yes, it feels that the highest vibration, the vibration of the true Consciousness, is SO INTENSE that it's... it's the equivalent of the inertia of stillness – with an intensity that's not perceptible (for us). That intensity is so great that, for us, it's the equivalent of inertia.

That's what is now being established.

That's what made the body understand (because now it understands) the process of the creation .... We could almost say that it began with a state of perfection, but an unconscious perfection, and that the creation must pass from that state of unconscious perfection to a state of conscious perfection, and in between is imperfection.

Words are stupid, but you understand.

(silence)

You know, the impression is of being on the very edge of understanding. But it's not at all a mental understanding, not at all (we've had that one, but it's nothing; it's nothing, it's zero). It's a LIVED understanding. And that the mind can't have – it can't. The impression is that only the body – receptive, open, at any rate partially transformed – is capable of having the understanding; the understanding of the creation of what we call the creation: why and how, the two things. And it's not at all something thought, not something felt: it's something lived, and that's the only way to know... It's lived. It's a consciousness.

You know, when that understanding comes – it comes, and it does like this (gesture like a luminous swelling), it comes like that, then it fades away, then it comes back, and then again it fades away; but when it comes it's so evident, so simple that you wonder how you could manage not to know it!

Some more time is needed .... How much time? I don't know But the notion of time, too, is quite arbitrary.

We always try to express our experiences in the old state of consciousness, that's the misery! We think it's necessary, indispensable – and it's stultifying. It's a terrible hindrance.

(silence)

And all, but all that people have said, all that they've written, all that they've taught is only one way of putting things. It's only trying to make oneself understood, but it's impossible. And to think (laughing) how much people have fought over such relative things!...

(long silence)

Looking at what happens from one day to the next, the body's experience is like this .... In a certain way, at certain times, it's in the consciousness of Immortality, and then, out of influence (also out of habit now and then), it falls back into the consciousness of mortality, and that's really... For it now, as soon as it falls back into the consciousness of mortality, there's a dreadful anguish; it's only when it emerges from that, when it enters the true consciousness, that it passes. I understand why some people, yogis, spoke of the unreality of the world, because, for the consciousness of Immortality, the consciousness of mortality is an unreal absurdity. And it's like this (Mother slips the fingers of one hand between the fingers of the other, showing an alternation between the two consciousnesses). So now it's like this, now it's like that. And the other state, the state of Immortality, is immutably peaceful, tranquil, with... like lightning-fast waves, so rapid that they seem still. It's like this: complete motionlessness (apparently) within a tremendous Movement. But then, as soon as the other state comes, it's all the ordinary notions that come back, that is to say... really in its present state, that gives it the anguish and suffering of a falsehood. But it's still like this (same to-and-fro gesture)....

The only, only way out that is effective is in fact self-abandon, surrender. It's not expressed in words or idea or anything, but it's a state, a state of vibration, in which ONLY the Divine Vibration has value. Then – then things get back in order.

But all that, the moment you talk about it...

But note that it's constant: it happens in the night, it happens in the morning (mornings are generally very difficult), and then there are other times when... (immense, even gesture, with a smile) there are no more problems – all problems are over: no more problems, no more difficulties, nothing anymore.

(silence)

There's a background (it's mostly that), a background of unconscious Negation which is still behind everything, but everything; it's still there everywhere: you eat or breathe – you receive that Negation .... For everything to be transformed, it's still a colossal work. But when you are on the “other side,” as we might call it (it's not “sides”), in the other state, it seems so natural that you wonder why things aren't like that, why they seem so difficult. And then, as soon as you're back to this other side, it's... (Mother takes her head in her hands)... The mixture is still there, undeniably.

Truly, the ordinary state, the old state, is consciously (meaning it's a conscious perception), it's death and suffering. And then in the other state, death and suffering appear to be... absolutely unreal – there you are.

The body seems to be very highly conscious of... (what can I call it?) a sort of stupidity. Yes, a sort of enduring and stupid goodwill. It's very conscious of that. And it's led to understand that this state was indispensable for the work to be done, that someone who... (naturally, the least bad will is out of question), that without this sort of... (it's not unconsciousness), this sort of ignorant simplicity (something like that), without that, endurance would become very difficult.

It doesn't ask any questions, but now and then, it's conscious of its state of mediocrity, and so, quite naturally, it wonders how it happens to have been chosen to do this work? And it clearly appears to be a sort of goodwill arising from its sense of insignificance .... The least sense of capacity and worth takes away all endurance. But it doesn't have that at all, so that enables it to go on.

Did I tell you the story of that child who came here?... That child came, holding this (Mother points to a small yellow bird on her table); he thought it was a swan: it's a goose, of course, but he thought it was a swan, and he gave it to me very nicely, saying, “It's You.” I saw in his thought that he was convinced it was a swan, that is to say, the soul. But then, I saw with my own eyes that it was a goose (Mother laughs), and I said, “Yes, it's true!” (Laughter) and that was precisely... Oh, I'm keeping it, it's precisely that – a goose (Mother laughs).

So there.

Here (Mother gives a flower of Transformation): the right one.

You too.

(Satprem lays his forehead on Mother's knees)

No impatience. That's the main thing: no impatience.

A trusting patience.

Ultimately, for everyone all is as well as it can be. It's always the old movements that get impatient .... Of course, when you see the whole, impatience was certainly created to counteract inertia – but it's over, that time is past.

ADDENDUM

(Questions from the healer to Mother)

(A.R.) I had two hernias. I cured one and kept the other deliberately, for what I seek is the greatest opening of Consciousness a human being can obtain. If my Consciousness widens sufficiently, my hernia and the illness of my [paralyzed] friend will automatically heal. The day when I wake up without any trace of illness, I will have on my body the proof that my Consciousness has opened wide. What I want is to be able to actually say, “I Am.”

Theoretically it is true, but that is clearly his own affair. Let him go through his experience.

One has no right to intervene in any way.

(A.R.) I wondered if I might not be more useful to Mother, to Her work, than by being here, meditating the whole day?

No, I don't see things like that.

One must have total suppleness towards the Divine Consciousness in oneself. Insofar as one lets it express itself all alone, it is this Consciousness that has one do things.

(A.R.) India needs water. What is necessary is to obtain harmonious waterfalls, according to the law of harmony, which will bring a sufficient amount of water for vegetation, but without causing damage. I think it is feasible. If it is not feasible, nothing is. But should one do it? Should one, for instance, divert a storm?... All one has to do is ask. So should one ask the Divine Force to act one way rather than another?⁶

In any case, the Divine Force will only do what it wills, and it is the Divine Force Itself which, in him, aspires to divert the storm.

¹ See text in addendum.

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² Tat tvam asi.

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³ That is what Satprem had vividly felt: a gap between A.R.'s living experience and his mentalization of it, as if he were seeking to shut the ocean within a graduated thermometer.

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⁴ A friend of Indira Gandhi, and a minister in the Indian government.

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⁵ One typical example of the “mixture of influences” Mother was referring to.

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⁶ As a matter of fact, it started raining as it had not rained for eighty years.

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