July 29, 1970
But couldn't Nolini do something?
Nolini wants peace.
Ah, what about you? What do you have to tell me?
I've received a letter from Monsignor R. [P. L. s friend]. Would you like to see it?... You know he was supposed to come at the end of last year, I think, and “as if by chance,” he was prevented from coming.
I am not surprised.
Then, quite recently, he underwent a grave operation. But in February he had written you a letter which he never sent, and he gave it to Z1 for you.
Is he still ill?
No, he's convalescing. And then, he is involved in a business... I told you that this man has hundreds and hundreds of millions, a considerable wealth, which he has always collected from women – he has a power over women.
Has he received more?
Yes, he has received another hundred million Swiss francs from a banker's widow.
Is this man old?
I have his photo here.
Oh, show it.
He is in fact with the woman who has just given him a hundred million.
That's amusing!... (Mother looks at the photo) Oh, they no longer wear their robes, they dress in plain clothes, do they?...
It depends on the occasion!
(Mother looks) Oh, that's it.... Well, well!
Is he fifty or so?
A little more, I think.
(after a silence)
Interesting. So then, what does he write?
27 February 1970
The longer the wait, the keener my desire to see you. It is probably because our meeting must have a considerable influence on my life that obstacles multiply under my steps. I am sorry to see this departure for Pondicherry constantly delayed and postponed.
Tomorrow, on your birthday, I will be in thought and prayer among all your children, so happy to offer you their warmest and most affectionate wishes.
May God keep you many more years in the affection of your countless friends – who all need your advice and presence to purify their being and let it grow to the superhuman stature willed by the Creator.
Permit me, Mother, to express again my admiration, my attachment, and my immense desire to be near you as soon as possible.
(after a silence)
Is P. L. still working for him?
Yes, since that serious illness, R. gave over to him all powers to manage this huge affair – billions.
All of it gifts?
All of it gifts. And it all falls on P.L.'s shoulders.
(after a long silence)
Did Z2 tell you that she intends to leave?
What made her decide that?
Mother, I have a strange feeling with her.... Two or three times, I was led to tell her, “May the Grace be with you,” because I felt only the Grace would save her.
Something has happened.
Yes, Mother. What happened is that before she left for Europe, she had a complete collapse of all mental constructions....
Yes, that I know.
Then everything widened and she opened at the vital level (the higher vital), and she says, “The Divine is everywhere,” it's “Love immense” and “Everything flows through me without resistance....” As a matter of fact, when you're near her, you feel a considerable vital force, which largely exceeds her, and to her, what expresses itself there, at this level [solar plexus], is the Divine.
(In a sad tone) Ah!...
All is “Love immense” and it's “the same thing everywhere”.... So I asked her, “But does Sri Aurobindo, for instance, represent something for you?” She told me, “Oh, no more forms, no more forms! Its the same Thing everywhere, there are no forms, I see Mother's face everywhere – all is the same Thing. It is an illusion to say that in Pondicherry there is more than elsewhere....” In fact, she wants to send her children [studying at the Ashram School] to Switzerland.
Yes, I know.
So I told her, “But are the children happy about it?” “Oh,” she said, “there it's all Mother's ideas, it's all the same thing.” Then she asked me, “Do you think there is a difference between the Divine here and there?...” So she is completely open at the level of vital forces. When you're near her, you receive a sort of vital deluge – not ugly or low, but... With a great desire to “help others,” to “act,” to “be the instrument” and so on.
She says, “It flows through me without resistance.”
(after a long silence)
It happened to her before she left [for Europe]. I got an impression (not in thought: something like a super-sensation) that she may have “pulled,” because the force that came through her was too great for her. That I'd seen before – I saw it, felt it before she left. But I saw her when she came back and... it was as if she had gone out of the atmosphere.
Yes, Mother, she has gone out.
I got an impression of something boiling.
Yes, very strong.
Very strong, but... For me, it's there (gesture at ground level), it's nothing (gesture crumbling through the fingers).
But it has effect.
Oh, to me...
Her “Love immense” is there [gesture at the solar plexus], she says it constantly beats there, you understand.
Yes, it's vital.... Because what I perceived was like a terrestrial swarming.
Yes, it's exactly that.... So when I was with her, I stayed very still to know what I should tell her. And I seemed to be told, “Don't say anything.”
“Don't say anything.” The only thing I perceived was that she was on a dangerous road, and twice I told her, “May the Grace be with you.” Because I felt only the Grace could save her.
As for me, as soon as she told me she wanted to send the children to a Swiss school which teaches exactly what I say...
Yes. it's “the same thing.”
I know this whole muddle of teaching: it takes place there, at ground level. But I said nothing, nothing at all, because... because there was nothing to say.
Me too, I said nothing at all.... Then, in Europe, she made her way into a certain milieu consisting of super-rich people: “super-artists,” “super-bankers,” a very dubious and disillusioned world to which the “spiritual” is just more theatricals: you suddenly discover you have a “spiritual soul.” So she is acting in that milieu, she makes a great effect there, and I suppose she wants to go back and work in that milieu.
But the only thing I am bothered with is: does it have an effect on P. L.? Because P. L. is quite...
Yes, but Mother, P. L. has something that can't easily be deceived.
Let's hope so.
He is far above that.
And now you're read me this letter.... This man is very mental – very mental – but... And what he wants to see isn't “me”: it's a mental construction he has made (but that doesn't matter, one can work through anything).... But there was in this letter something MORE than I thought. I always thought he was a very mental man with a vital power of attraction – there may be something else.... But they are caught in vital formations. P. L. too, I always got a feeling he had to be protected.
Did Z say when she intends to leave?
End of August. And she'd like to come back next year with Msgr. R., in February I think.
When she told me about her projects, I said absolutely nothing, but I looked, and I was very clearly told, “She needs this experience.”
She needs the experience.
I also felt that. Only, it's a dangerous experience.
Ah... it may put off realization to another life.
I think I told you that when P. L. caused that scandal there [at the Vatican], I was clearly told that it was “the beginning of the conversion of Christianity.” And naturally, that's what interests me, much more than personal questions....
But I see that P. L. may only be an intermediary, and R. may be... how should I put it?
Yes, there, to let the Current in.
I had already been told that the Pope is the richest man in the world.
Yes, that's true.
Material wealth seems to have concentrated there. From that standpoint, a positive standpoint (there's also a very important negative standpoint), from that positive standpoint this conversion is important.... The wealth of the earth must be used for the transformation of the earth.3
(Mother goes into a long concentration, closes her eyes very tightly, looking at something, then plunges in)
Z is propagandizing people to take them away from here.
Yes, a child who wrote to me. Yesterday or the day before, I got a note in which she tells me (it's a girl), “Z wants me to go to the Swiss school with her children, and suddenly,” she says, “I am no longer happy here.” It was the exact opposite before....
Mother, I have a certain influence over Z because it was through my book that she came, and every time she comes to see me as if to get an approval or confirmation – she feels there's something above. When she came to see me, I didn't budge, said nothing, despite all the danger and falsity I felt. But do you think I should intervene? Because if I do, she will listen to me.
I don't want her to stay.
You don't want her to stay.
No, because she needs the experience.... But when I got the child's letter, I found the case more serious. If she propagandizes people to take them away from here...
When people go away from here, they suddenly become aware of all that they've lost. As long as they're here, they are unaware of it, because our appearance is... The vital makes no fuss, you know, doesn't put on an act, so they're easily deceived! But when they go away, they suddenly become aware of all that they've lost. So... But I am not looking at it from that angle, it's the angle of what I might call the “seriousness of Z's case.” When I saw she could want to pull people from here, that... as a mental aberration, it's serious.
Her aberration is to have the “realization,” as she says, that it's “everywhere the same thing,” and that external forms – Mother, Sri Aurobindo – are a sort of illusion, while in reality there's one great impersonal force, everywhere the SAME.
(Mother nods her head silence)
I don't think the time has come to wage battle, you understand.... It's this whole transformation of Christianity that's starting, this whole Western world that... We shouldn't enter into conflict as yet, we should let it be. We'll see.
But you know, with this Msgr. R., I feel a man with an opening above, who understands VERY WELL what the superman is – for him the superman means something. That's how he can be touched.
Possibly.... He's a very powerful man (I know, you showed me his photo), very powerful.
(long, smiling silence)
Shouldn't speak.... Shouldn't speak too soon.
Do you have something to answer this letter?
(after a silence)
There's this sentence of Sri Aurobindo we should send him, you know it: “In the hour of God all is possible....” I don't remember. Just yesterday evening I translated it.... “Nothing is impossible in the Hour of God....” One single sentence. It's the only thing I'd like to tell him. (Satprem looks for the reference in vain)
Mother, we can simply send him the sentence as from you.
“Me,” it's worthless.
It was short: “Nothing is impossible when the Hour of God has come...” or “At the Hour of God...”4 My memory... I remember a whole lot of impressions I have, but I don't remember words and sentences.
And then, I see too many people and do too many things.
It's the only thing I want to tell him.... Because I have just had a fantastic vision... A vision without form... of (how can I express it?) the cradle of a future... not a very distant future. A future... I don't know.
But it refuses to be told.
Just this: it's a pro-di-gious mass (gesture) hanging over the earth.
1 Someone living in the Ashram, who has just returned from a stay in Europe.
2 Z is in relation with Msgr. R. and P. L.
3 Let us recall Sri Aurobindo: “All wealth belongs to the Divine and those who hold it are trustees, not possessors. It is with them today, tomorrow it may be elsewhere. All depends on the way they discharge their trust while it is with them, in what spirit, with what consciousness in their use of it, to what purpose.”
(The Mother, 25.12)
4 The exact quotation is: “All things shall change in God's transfiguring hour.”