Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
28 January 1939
In the morning, during the sponging, Champaklal and Purani were engaged in killing flies. They were making a dapping sound. Champaklal burst into laughter. We reported the cause of the laughter to Sri Aurobindo.
Sri Aurobindo: This is not Ahimsa. Champaklal should be sent to Vinoba at the Gandhi Ashram.
Purani: Oh, he will be given severe punishment.
Sri Aurobindo: He should be stopped from laughing for six months!
In the evening, after the Mother had left for the general meditation, we were ready to begin talking. But Sri Aurobindo seemed preoccupied with something, or was thinking, or perhaps just in a mood of silence. Nirodbaran said to Purani, “Come out with your news.” But Purani kept smiling. After a few minutes Sri Aurobindo looked at us and broke into a spontaneous smile. Then Nirodbaran started speaking.
Nirodbaran: Purani seems to have some news.
Sri Aurobindo: Then why doesn’t he blurt it out?
Purani: No, nothing today.
Sri Aurobindo: Well, there is a cure for your cold in the Sunday Times. You have to get into an aeroplane, take some rounds, get down – and you are cured.
Satyendra: Permanently?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if the aeroplane comes down with a crash!
Nirodbaran: V used to put a string up his nose for his cold.
Satyendra: That is a Hathayogic process.
Sri Aurobindo: The Hathayogis also insert a long piece of cloth into the stomach, pass it through the intestine and bring it out from the anus to clean the whole system. And there have been authentic cases of their eating poisons like nitric acid, cyanide, etc., and also things like nails and bits of glass.
Satyendra: I wonder how the scientists will explain all this. Somewhere they were invited to a demonstration, but they refused to go.
Sri Aurobindo: They can’t go – for fear of getting their present convictions shaken.
Nirodbaran: The Hathayogins perhaps know some process to prevent absorption of the poisons.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, they have the power to stop the action of the poisons and to eliminate them. They have to carry out some secret process immediately after their demonstration.
Nirodbaran: Probably you have heard that Sir William Crookes invited scientists to his mediumistic seances. But they refused to have anything to do with that sort of thing.
Sri Aurobindo: The same happened in Germany. In some German village there was a horse which could do mathematical calculations. The owner of the horse invited scientists. They not only pooh-poohed the thing and turned down the invitation but also complained to the Government, saying such matters should be stopped because they were scientifically unorthodox.
Purani: Maurice Maeterlinck went to see the performance and said he had himself not believed before seeing it, but he tested the animal by giving his own figures and the animal answered correctly by signs.
Sri Aurobindo: People say animals can’t think or reason. It is not at all true. Their intelligence has evolved to act only within the narrow limits of life, according to their own needs. But they have latent faculties which have not been developed.
Cats have a language of their own. They utter different kinds of mews for different purposes. For instance, when the mother cat mews in a particular tone and rhythm after leaving her kittens behind a box, the little ones understand that they are not to move from that place until she comes back and repeats that mew. It is through the tone and the rhythm that cats express themselves.
Even donkeys, which are supposed to be very stupid, are sometimes unusually clever. Once some horses and donkeys were confined together, with the gate shut, to see if they could get out. While the horses were helpless, a donkey got out by lifting the latch and opening the gate.
Why go so far? Even in our Ashram the Mother’s cat Chikoo was extraordinarily clever. One day she was confined in a room. It was discovered that she was trying to open the window in exactly the same way as the Mother used to do. Evidently Chikoo had watched the Mother carefully.
We had a dog, a bitch left by somebody in the first house we rented. One day she was locked out. Finding it impossible to push the door open, she just sat in front of it and began to think, “How to get in?” The way she sat and the attitude of her head and eyes showed clearly that she was thinking. Then suddenly she got up, as if saying to herself, “Ah, there is the bathroom door. Let me try it.” And she went in that direction. The door was open and she got in.
It is the Europeans who make a big difference between man and animal. The only difference is that animals can’t form concepts and can’t read or write or philosophise.
Nirodbaran: They can’t do Yoga, either.
Sri Aurobindo: I don’t know about that. Once, while the Mother and I were meditating, a cat happened to be present. We found that she was behaving oddly. She passed into a trance and was almost on the point of leaving her body and dying, when suddenly she recovered. Evidently she was trying to receive something.
Satyendra: Ramana Maharshi’s cow Lakshmi is said to bow down to him. She is supposed to be someone connected with him in her past life who was attached to the Maharshi. This cow must be an exceptional one in South India. One can’t really love Tamil cows: one gets so disgusted with their thin starved look and blank expression. And what a horrible practice it is to set the cow’s milk flowing by putting a stuffed dummy calf in front of her, which she can’t recognise as a fake one.
You say animals are intelligent, but this doesn’t show it.
Sri Aurobindo: Not all men are intelligent either!
The talk about the dummy calf brought Gandhi into the discussion, as he severely condemned the practice and said, besides, that to drink cow’s milk is equivalent to drinking the calf’s blood, for it starves the calf. This was thought to be rather an extreme statement.
Satyendra: Perhaps Vallabhbhai knows that Gandhi is sometimes extremist in his principles and that is why he asked him not to come to Bardoli at all during the Satyagraha campaign there with Vallabhbhai in full command. Vallabhbhai is very shrewd.
Sri Aurobindo: Possibly he thought Gandhi would stop the whole movement if it didn’t conform strictly to his own principles.
Purani now brought in his favourite subject: Rajkot affairs. He related the substance of the letters that had passed between Patel and the Thakur and the part played by the Dewan in helping the Thakur retract from the agreed terms. He also recounted the story of the suicide of Ranjit Singh because he was insulted by the Viceroy in the Chamber of Princes. Then the subject of Federation came up.
Sri Aurobindo: When is the Government going to inaugurate Federation?
Purani: The early part of 1940. That is why they are trying their best to bring the Congress into a settlement.
Sri Aurobindo: The early part of 1940 is too soon. They have hardly a little more than a year in hand. Within such a short period they have to rope in the Princes and come to terms with the Congress.
Purani: Bhulabhai Desai went to England many times ostensibly for his health but really, it would seem, to discuss this Federation problem. He hopes to remain behind the scenes.
Sri Aurobindo: That was my policy too. I sympathise with him. But the Nizam won’t give in so easily. If the major States come in, the small ones don’t matter.
Purani: Vallabhbhai is trying to appeal to the Gaekwar.
Sri Aurobindo: He will think for thirty years before he gives in. But who knows? He may give in. Since he is old he may take the glory and give the legacy of trouble to his successor.