Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

7 December 1939

As we were sponging Sri Aurobindo, Purani started once more the topic of Meher Baba, the Yogi of Western India, by saying that one of his disciples had sketched some diagrams of Meher Baba’s world-scheme.

Satyendra: There he shows the arrangement of the different planes.

Sri Aurobindo: It seems by “Intuition” he means the Intuitive Mind which throws its light on the ordinary intelligence. In that plane there are four divisions: discrimination with intuitive suggestion, inspiration which he calls “Higher Inspiration”, then revelation which is equivalent to his “Insight”, and finally the gnosis which could be his “Illumination”. In that way his scheme is more understandable.

Satyendra: In his diagram all Jivas, individual souls, are held in the Paramatman Consciousness; they are latent and the purpose of evolution is to make them conscious of their unity with the Divine.

Sri Aurobindo: That is akin to our idea.

At this point we noticed that Champaklal was shaking his head with closed eyes, and we began to laugh.

Sri Aurobindo: What is it?

Nirodbaran: Champaklal is shaking his head.

Sri Aurobindo: Because he doesn’t understand us?

Satyendra: Probably he is shaking to the rhythm of my speech.

Champaklal: Both. (Laughter)

Satyendra: To go back to Meher Baba: his behaviour, as I have said, is very erratic, saying one thing now, contradicting it the next moment, and prophesying so many things that don’t come true.

Sri Aurobindo: That means he is living and acting from the Cosmic Consciousness. I don’t know what realisation he has reached. Perhaps it is on the vital plane. That is a plane of possibilities. If any possibility or idea or suggestion comes to him with some force, he accepts it. The nature of these vital formations is to present themselves with a force. And when another possibility comes with the same force, Meher Baba accepts that too so that his prophecies go wrong, become contradictory and his planning and behaviour erratic. This sort of thing I know by experience. But the European mind can’t understand it. It calls it all a fraud.

Satyendra: He doesn’t reject anything. He even goes to cinemas and says that one can act there more easily where people are concentrated on one purpose.

Sri Aurobindo: That means he works through the mass, which again is a sign of working from the vital plane.

Nirodbaran: He seems to be an interesting fellow anyhow.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, he is interesting.

Satyendra: He lays great stress on love.

Sri Aurobindo: That means the heart. And that again is a sign of his action working through the vital being.

Satyendra: Some of the people who go to see him are not impressed. Others feel a sense of love towards him. Ramdas also acts through love; he mixes with people and serves them out of love: he has no mission, while Meher Baba claims to have a mission.

Purani: Nirodbaran was wondering what you meant by saying yesterday that he had got into a higher consciousness.

Nirodbaran: Isn’t the higher consciousness a vast range?

Sri Aurobindo: The higher consciousness is anything above the mind. Of course, there are different levels of higher consciousness.

Nirodbaran: That’s what I mean by a “vast range”.

Sri Aurobindo: There is no indication of the nature of Meher Baba’s first realisation; but to judge from his first experience or its results, he seems to have got into the Cosmic Consciousness, but for its expression there was no instrumentation for a long time. That explains his long period of seeming madness. Since then he has been trying to establish the contact but there is still no proper organisation of the instrument.

Satyendra: But he is quite conscious. He makes his own plans and arrangements even as regards details.

Sri Aurobindo: I don’t mean there is no contact but the contact is not sufficiently established and organised. He is trying to establish it by his silence.

Satyendra: He doesn’t seem to be conscious of other worlds.

Sri Aurobindo: For that one must have the visionary power and know the workings of these worlds and their influence on you. It is sometimes done by coming in contact with beings of those worlds. Otherwise one is only conscious of the planes within oneself.

Satyendra: People who go to him feel a great bustle and activity. One biographer has written about that.

Sri Aurobindo: Then his life could be written of as a hustle and bustle coming out of the silence. (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: At any rate he seems to be more interesting than Ramana Maharshi.

Satyendra: Maharshi is another type. People say they feel great peace at his Ashram. And he himself looks like a rock of peace.

Sri Aurobindo: At any rate Maharshi is much more firmly established in his realisation.

Nirodbaran: Does he believe in transformation of this life?

Satyendra: No. He says he has no such Sankalpa (will). Dilip asked him once what he thought of your idea of ascent, descent, transformation, etc., and whether he wanted to change earth-life. He replied that there was no Sankalpa in him for it.

Sri Aurobindo: The Mother also believes in Sankalpa, as you can see from what she said to Paul Brunton when he asked her what he should do. She said, “You have to follow whatever will arises in you. When you have realised the Self, the Self will choose for you what to do.” That is another thing European minds can’t understand. They think all spiritual personalities must be of the same fixed type.

Satyendra: Sometimes Meher Baba makes provocative statements. If asked, “Are you Christ?” he says, “Yes.” “Are you God?” Again, “Yes.” When a Christian comes, he says, “I can help you. Awaken the Christ within.” By that he means the Christ consciousness.

Purani: Blake and other European mystics have said the same.

Sri Aurobindo: That is the doctrine of all esoterics.

Satyendra: Meher Baba wants to create a circle of twelve disciples.

Sri Aurobindo: Like the twelve apostles? Repetition of an old performance?

Nirodbaran: Ending in a crucifixion?

Satyendra: No, minus that.

Sri Aurobindo: Then there won’t be any Judas? (Laughter)

Satyendra: His system of communicating with others is by a board on which the alphabet is arranged. By swift movements he indicates what he has to say.

Sri Aurobindo: That is like table-tapping.

Satyendra: Some of his disciples criticise him and say he is proud – that’s because of his wrong prophecies, I think. I wish he would remain silent.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if it is true silence. And silence would have saved him the inconvenience to which he has been put.

Satyendra: Some people say, “We are convinced he has no Nirvikalpa Samadhi.”

Sri Aurobindo: He doesn’t believe in Samadhi. One can’t act in Samadhi.

Satyendra: And some people are bored by him.

Sri Aurobindo: Do they think they are in a school?

Satyendra: No, not that bad. (Laughter) He puts meditation above concentration – meditation on an idea or scheme or object.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite correct.

Satyendra (after some time): Some people – especially Europeans – at once rush to the press to vent their impressions. The danger is that sometimes they have to contradict their previous statements and impressions, as in Y’s case. He was taken up with Yoga at first, then he began to decry it. It is the same with some Europeans connected with Meher Baba. They praise him at first and then say, “He is inconsistent.” In Yoga one can’t always be consistent. Whitman said, “Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I contain multitudes.” When one is growing, one can’t always have consistency.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. Emerson and Vivekananda said the same thing. “Consistency”, said Emerson, “is the hobgoblin of little minds.” There are contrary sides to a truth and their expressions may appear contradictory.

Evening

Nirodbaran (as Sri Aurobindo was being massaged): It seems that for some time here in the Ashram the response in the physical with regard to illness has been quicker than before. Yesterday J was relieved of an acute asthmatic attack as soon as the news of it reached you.

Purani: Jwalanti got relief of acute sciatica the moment the evening meditation started.

Nirodbaran: Is all this because the Power has increased or is it because of a greater receptivity in us?

Sri Aurobindo: The Power has increased, and so has the receptivity but only in particular cases and not in a general sense.

(To Nirodbaran after a while) I am told Satyendra does meditation while working and has that experience of nothingness, but feels giddy. If she feels giddy she shouldn’t allow herself to meditate during work. She may fall down.

Nirodbaran: She didn’t tell me about giddiness. When she asked me about meditating during work I told her to ask the Mother.

Sri Aurobindo: But does she remain conscious? What is meant by being “conscious of nothingness”?

Nirodbaran: I’ll ask her to write out the experience.

Sri Aurobindo (smiling to Satyendra): What about Sh?

Satyendra: I was just thinking of him while reviewing in my mind my present patients. Strange coincidence! He is getting on well though he won’t admit it. He has asked for his medical reports from Dr. Savoor.

Sri Aurobindo: What for? Does he want to make a book out of them and publish it? Savoor may have thrown them into the W.P.B.

Satyendra: Purani has asked for homeopathic treatment. I advised him to go to Dr. Ramchandra. (after some time) I want to say something more about Meher Baba. At the start of his spiritual life he lost consciousness through an embrace from a Yogini and recovered through a knock from a Yogi.

Sri Aurobindo: That is allopathic and not homeopathic treatment.

Satyendra: While he was rambling in a dazed condition after that embrace he came across a Yogi who as soon as he saw him threw a stone which struck his forehead. Meher Baba was startled and came back to normal consciousness.

Sri Aurobindo: Startled back into common sense?

Satyendra: I have heard of Sadhus curing diseases by flinging things at people and hurting them in various other ways. In general I don’t know how to view Sadhus. It is curious to see jealousy and egoism in them even more than in worldly people who are doing sadhana. They are egoistic even about their renunciation!

Sri Aurobindo: How?

Satyendra: One tells another, “I have sacrificed a lot. How much have you sacrificed?” As for worldly people who do sadhana, they are busy all day and at the end of the day when they meet some brother disciples, they become happy.

Sri Aurobindo: In the world there is more restraint. People know that otherwise they would get into hot water. I have seen many jealousies in Ashrams. I knew a Bengali Sadhu who fought with a fellow Sadhu for the gadi of an Ashram. He was quiet at first but his disciples egged him on. When his Guru came to know about the quarrel he said, “You have gained what you could in this life. You won’t advance any more.” In Dayanand’s Ashram, however, the disciples lived in peace and harmony because he always insisted on love among them.