Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
8 December 1939
Satyendra broke the silence by saying that he had had an unexpected visit from his patient Sh. We said that it must have been the result of the previous day’s talk. We were all amused by the information from Sh that his nerves and stomach, not his mind, were the seats of the trouble: the hostile forces attacked him there. Sri Aurobindo asked: “But why the stomach?” After this, the talk moved on to Meher Baba, the Yogi from Western India.
Satyendra: What consciousness corresponds to the Karana Sharira, the Causal Body?
Sri Aurobindo: What I call the Superconscient. It belongs to the Vijnana or Supermind.
Satyendra: Meher Baba declares that one has to go beyond the Karana Sharira and he identifies it with the mental plane.
Sri Aurobindo: What he and others mean is that it belongs to the Higher Mind or Higher Intelligence, not to the Manas or ordinary lower mental consciousness but to the Buddhi.
Satyendra: Meher Baba says Karana Sharira is the root of all Samskaras which are manifested on the subtle planes. He puts the human consciousness on the gross planes but he believes that it opens to the subtle ones.
Sri Aurobindo: The human consciousness has what I call the subliminal, which is open to the subtle worlds, but of which one is not aware because the surface awareness is clouded by the ordinary human mental, vital and physical. The inner opening is to the subliminal while the higher is to the Superconscient. There are some people who are open to the latter.
Satyendra: Terms like Karana Sharira are of the later Vedanta.
Sri Aurobindo: I go by the Upanishads where they mention the Pranamaya, Manomaya, Vijnanamaya Koshas, the Kosha being the root. The Upanishads define Vijnana in terms of the Vedas while later it had three senses: the Truth-Consciousness, the Higher Intelligence and even Science.
Satyendra: We use the terms Padartha Vijnana or Padartha Shastra for Science.
Sri Aurobindo: Shastra is much more appropriate here than Vijnana.
Satyendra (Addressing Purani): New copies of The Life Divine have come. They seem a little thin. Perhaps thinner paper has been used.
Nirodbaran: Same price?
Purani: You thought the price would also be thin? (Laughter) Nolini and I were wondering if they would send us copies.
Satyendra: Nolini and Purani get them free.
Sri Aurobindo: Why?
Purani: For review.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh! (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: Premanand has found a new trick for selling copies. He promises your autograph. (Sri Aurobindo laughs.) In that way he is like Gandhi. But now people don’t crowd round Gandhi for his autograph.
Sri Aurobindo: Why?
Nirodbaran: Because he charges five rupees for each autograph. (Laughter) So they all go to Vallabhbhai, Nehru and others.
Sri Aurobindo: They should charge one rupee then.
Satyendra: Gandhi is very clever. He is never in need of money.
Nirodbaran: Then, like Meher Baba, he must have reached God! (Laughter)
Satyendra: Meher Baba gets much more money. Besides, the two cases are different, for Gandhi keeps an account of every item.
Sri Aurobindo: Gandhi is a trustee of God while Meher Baba is God himself! (Laughter)
Satyendra: Once as Meher Baba was passing by a jail he said, “There also I have my agents.”
Sri Aurobindo: Then everybody is his “agent”.
Satyendra: But these are special agents. The trouble is that he is not at all dependable. The Europeans complain, as I have already said, that he changes plans so often.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, European minds can’t tolerate that. They want arrangement, method, a fixed system.
Nirodbaran: In that case Meher Baba is like Hitler. By the way, this is the fateful month for Hitler.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but the stars don’t seem to be acting – perhaps because Russia has come in. Russia now occupies the stage; Hitler has quieted down.
Purani: Now people are hoping for something in Spring.
Sri Aurobindo: That is due to Strauss. Hitler began too early, in November. If he had begun in December, astrology would have proven itself successful. Anyhow, now it is not only the Hitler danger but the Stalin danger.
Nirodbaran: Hitler is in a difficult position. He has to face the Western front and also provide for Stalinist possibilities.
Satyendra: Why? He has nothing to fear from Stalin.
Sri Aurobindo: If Stalin is successful in the Baltic and the Balkans, Germany will be in danger and Stalin will be all-powerful in Europe.
Nirodbaran: Besides, there is fear of an internal revolution in Germany and then of the spread of Communism.
Sri Aurobindo: That is what Stalin hopes for. And after that Communism may spread over the whole of Europe.
Satyendra: But Stalin is not making much headway in Finland.
Sri Aurobindo: No, he’s not, except that his men have made some progress at the Isthmus, which is not much, and in the North where they have reached the Finnish defence lines.
Purani: Finland is now fortifying the Aaland Islands. She hasn’t up to now because of objections.
Sri Aurobindo: Only Russia had objected. The League had given permission.
Satyendra: Sweden seems willing to help Finland.
Sri Aurobindo: Perhaps they are already helping with arms.
Evening
There was very little talk. Nobody appeared to be in the mood.
Purani: Have you seen Jinnah’s statement? After this, Congress should have nothing to do with him.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, the more they approach him the more insolent he becomes. Is it true that the Momins, the sect to which Jinnah belongs, constitute half the number of Muslims in India? That is what is being said.
Purani: I don’t know exactly.
When Sri Aurobindo was lying down, Purani showed him some photos of Meher Baba’s “mad disciples”. Sri Aurobindo commented, “They don’t look like liberated souls!” (Laughter)