Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

16 February 1940

Nirodbaran: I met Charu Dutt this morning. He seems to be an interesting man.

Sri Aurobindo: In what way?

Nirodbaran: Well, the way he talks, the unlimited stock of anecdotes he seems to have. He was saying that when they were starting the Bande Mataram C.R. Das insisted that Bipin Pal should be the editor, while they insisted that Sri Aurobindo should be the editor. Dutt told Das, “We have persuaded him to come from Baroda to take up the editorship of the paper.”

Sri Aurobindo: What? Who persuaded me? I came on my own to start a nationalist movement. There was no C.R. Das at that time. In fact, Bipin Pal had himself started the paper with Rs. 500 as capital. When he went on a tour of West Bengal he asked me to edit it for the time being. I had accepted the principalship of the National College for Rs. 150 a month.

Tilak was coming to Calcutta as President of the Congress. We wanted to have a militant programme and our own organ. So I called a meeting of the extremist leaders – there we decided to have a paper and Subodh Mullick offered to finance it.

Shyam Sundar and Hem Ghose were not pleased with Pal’s editorship. They said he was too moderate and when I was dangerously ill – the illness almost took me away – they published my name as editor without my consent and in Pal’s absence. I called them and remonstrated strongly. They said they wouldn’t have anything to do with the paper if Pal remained editor, and so he was pushed out.

Nirodbaran: Dutt also said to Das, “We have brought Sri Aurobindo from Baroda almost against the Maharaja’s wishes. The Maharaja is coming to the Congress. What will he say?”

Sri Aurobindo: Which Congress? How could he attend the Congress?

Purani: Perhaps some Industrial Congress or Exhibition. Some such thing was taking place at that time in Calcutta.

Sri Aurobindo: In Calcutta?

Purani: I am not sure if in Calcutta. But on that side.

Sri Aurobindo: Dutt seems to have a strong imagination. He can’t be entrusted with writing my biography. I think it should be made a rule that nobody shall write a biography without the consent of the man.

Evening

Nirodbaran: X has suddenly developed a soft corner for Anilbaran. He was saying to Dutt, “Have a talk with him. He is the one man whom we can present to others.”

Sri Aurobindo: Because of his shining face? (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: He has made surrender practicable in his own life, X says. One day Anilbaran asked X to sing and then gave a high tribute to his songs – psychic, wonderful development, etc. From that day perhaps X softened down. (Sri Aurobindo began to laugh.)

Champaklal: Anilbaran is extremely clever. He knows very well how to please a man. Looking at my pictures, he would exclaim, “O Champaklal, it is wonderful, marvellous!” Then, looking from increasing distances of one foot, two feet and three feet he would go on, “Admirable, excellent!”

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): And you were pleased in spite of yourself. (Laughter)

Champaklal: Now I don’t believe what he says. Akbar Hydari told him, “Only the Mother shows me my faults and mistakes; everybody else praises me.” Anilbaran asked me, “Was Hydari hinting to me?” (Laughter)

Satyendra: Where did he learn this art?

Sri Aurobindo: You mean it may be a Yogic Siddhi. (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: It seems Tagore was asked his opinion of The Life Divine and he said, “All that about sadhana in solitude I don’t understand.” Charu Dutt replied, “How is that? You yourself had to retire to a boat to write poetry. And I have seen you meditating all alone in the early morning. Then how can you make that remark? Can you write poetry in the market-place?

Sri Aurobindo: I was doing Yoga even during my political activity. Solitude is only a temporary period in sadhana.

Nirodbaran: Dutt had a discussion with Tagore over Nishikanto’s book Alakananda. Tagore’s point is that he can’t believe that a man can remain unmoved and calm and tranquil amidst pain and suffering, sorrow and distress. “If a man falls from a height, how can he escape being hurt?” he asks.

Sri Aurobindo: It is not a question of being hurt. The question is of remaining unmoved and unshaken by the hurt.

Nirodbaran: Tagore himself in Prabasi speaks of unperturbed peace.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but that should be the ideal, it is not realisable in life: that is perhaps his view.

Nirodbaran: But he says one must have it.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, have it as an ideal.

Nirodbaran: Am I to believe that in the long period of his life he has not met a single man like that?

Satyendra: He may not have.

Sri Aurobindo: Why shouldn’t he have? If he hasn’t he should be sent to Finland and he will see many people there remaining calm and tranquil in the midst of all knocks and attacks.

Nirodbaran: Tagore says Nishikanto’s poetry is not for the mass, that it is not within their experience. By ‘mass’ he means himself and a few hundred people like him, Dutt said, while the rest, like Dutt himself, understand it quite well. Another funny thing Dutt said was that Nishikanto could have written equally well in Shantiniketan and with better substance too.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, substance which the mass would understand, perhaps.