Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

18 June 1940

Purani: The people in Pondicherry have become very panicky. They are thinking about what their fate will be now.

Sri Aurobindo: I see.

Satyendra: The Working Committee of the Congress is sitting now. With the coming of the war it has set up a radio and trunk line. It must have got the bad news. But I don’t know how much it will influence its decisions. People are talking about a National Government now.

Sri Aurobindo: But for Nehru’s influence, Gandhi would have come to a compromise.

Purani: Rajagopalachari also seems to be in favour of some settlement.

Sri Aurobindo: He is a practical man.

Purani: I don’t know how Churchill’s offer to France of one nationality will work. Two nations temperamentally so different!

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Yes, the French will say one thing, and the English will nod their heads to quite the opposite.

Purani: And France won’t accept the king!

Sri Aurobindo: No!

Satyendra: But it is a brilliant offer of an economic combination.

Sri Aurobindo: Not only economic but much more than that. Practically one nation. It is a tremendous step for the English, beyond all tradition, prejudice and character of the nation.

Purani: Yes, and after the war it might form the nucleus of a European federation.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if they combine, the small nations may enter and the British dominions come in and, along with them, India may be asked to join. In that case it may turn into a world federation. The English do not seem to have lost their elasticity which is shown by two steps they have taken. The first is the socialisation of their government in two hours and the second is their offer to the French. The English lead a practical life; they don’t live in ideas. That is why they are so successful in life. In times of crisis or necessity they are driven to take practical steps as the situation demands.

Nirodbaran: Only, they are not applying their practicality to India.

Purani: They may not yet have felt the necessity.

Sri Aurobindo: Pétain and Weygand are inelastic and too old. Hitler is neither practical nor a man of ideas. Still he is very successful because of his remarkable inspirations.

Nirodbaran: Hitler has not yet sent any reply to France’s peace offer.

Purani: He will be more cunning now in the face of the British proposal.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, as in the case of Czechoslovakia. He struck later at the most opportune moment. He knows that he can’t conquer England without the support of France. Hitler’s first idea was to get hold of the north of France so as to control the Channel ports.

Nirodbaran: The 20th of June is not very far away; today is the 18th.

Sri Aurobindo: Yesterday was Paul Richard’s birthday. You know what he used to say?

Purani: No.

Sri Aurobindo: That his ideas would be fulfilled on his birthdays.

Nirodbaran: France can still retrieve her honour if she accepts England’s offer.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. But, as I said, Pétain and Weygand are too old and inelastic.

Satyendra: It is perhaps too late.

Sri Aurobindo: If it had been offered earlier they would not have accepted it.

Satyendra: That is true.

Nirodbaran: It seems to me that the capitulation of Paris has demoralised the army. Otherwise how could the Germans advance so fast?

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Besides, I don’t understand Weygand’s strategy of ceding territory to the enemy with the idea of exhausting him. That only lengthens the line of defence which is very difficult to keep together. It is only by a short line that the forces can be concentrated. It is the Champagne Line that is broken. The fall of Paris has, of course, divided the army into three sectors. The other two sectors are still fighting well.

Nirodbaran: Some people in India defend France’s peace offer. They say, “What can the French do? Their army was being annihilated. As they were defeated they had no other course.”

Sri Aurobindo: That is the typical Indian mentality. That is why India is under subjection. Just because an army has been defeated, must it surrender? Will a subject nation then always be a subject nation? Won’t it fight for freedom? See what the Poles have done. They have resisted in spite of their severe defeat. The Belgian and the Dutch Governments have not surrendered, they have withdrawn.

Purani: Besides, the French still have a big army intact. The navy and the air force are theirs. Why should they surrender?

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. Moreover, as you go on fighting, moral and spiritual forces may rise up and assert themselves. No, France has become inferior now.

Nirodbaran: France does not believe in moral forces.

Sri Aurobindo: But ancient France did believe.

Nirodbaran: Dilip believes that England also will give up the fight. How can she fight alone?

Sri Aurobindo: She has always fought alone. That again is the Indian subject mentality. No great things can be done unless one sticks on in the face of defeat and failure. Hitler had himself been imprisoned but he stuck on like a bulldog even after defeat. Now he is the master of Europe.

Evening

Purani: It seems Reynaud has resigned on the issue of the appeal of Churchill, which he wanted to accept while Pétain and others didn’t. And Pétain has started communication with Hitler.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, they want military nationalism, that is why Pétain speaks of believing in the destiny of France.

Nirodbaran: I hope Hitler’s terms will be unacceptable and that they will be forced to accept England’s offer.

Sri Aurobindo: I hope they will accept this offer. To do so would be much better than the surrender of France to Hitler.

Satyendra: If the Navy could get away …

Sri Aurobindo: Pétain has put two naval officers in his Cabinet to stop that. Unless there is a revolt in the Cabinet the outlook is bad. These people ought to be shot for the betrayal of France.

Purani: In Africa the Italians are not faring very well.

Sri Aurobindo: No, the Africans don’t seem to be willing to give their lives for the Italians.

Purani: Sammer still holds that if France declared herself communist, the Russians would attack Hitler and come to help France. And people here in Pondy believe that Hitler doesn’t want the British Empire. He only wants hegemony among his colonies.

Sri Aurobindo: Are they so idiotic as to believe that he will be satisfied with that? He has said plainly in Mein Kampf that his aim is to destroy France and Russia. Now he is speaking of colonies which means that England also must be destroyed. These people know nothing about war. It is better for us to learn German now or both German and Russian – as a precaution! (Laughter)