Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
24 June 1940
The armistice terms were announced on the radio.
Purani: I took Dilip to the British Consul today. He expressed his sympathy for the British and wished their victory, to which the Consul replied, “It is not like the old times now, just throwing in a huge number of people. The warfare is quite different now, everything is mechanised and highly technical.” Then Dilip said, “India also will fight alongside the British if only she is given the opportunity. We have no arms, no ammunitions, no training. How can we help? If the Government made some gesture, then everybody would willingly help. Sarojini Naidu has said that nobody in India wants Hitler’s victory. If the British gave some self-government – for instance, Dominion Status – all would help the Allies.”
Sri Aurobindo: Is what she says true? I thought that India was anti-British. Mitran has told the Mother that Madras is pro-Hitler.
Satyendra: That must be the bazaar gossip. Mitran can’t have the opportunity of mixing with various people. Natesan also expressed some sarcasm at the cost of Britain. I suppose some pleaders may be of that sentiment, but the rest of the public won’t side with them.
Nirodbaran: I think most of the young people are anti-British. Only elderly people and leaders are not.
Sri Aurobindo: The young people have no sense then and don’t seem to understand anything.
Satyendra: They have no political sense.
Sri Aurobindo: But in Europe it is the youth who are alive and active.
Satyendra: Yes, but we are not entrusted with any responsibility or any opportunity to take part in active political life.
Purani: These armistice terms mean practically the end of France.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh! I wonder whether it was treachery or cowardice that made them accept these terms. This fool of a Marshal Pétain has sold France.
Satyendra: If at least a part of the navy could be saved!
Sri Aurobindo: Don’t know. Pétain has put three admirals in his cabinet to prevent that.
Satyendra: Yes, they go by rules and traditions and authority. The navy is not likely to revolt, perhaps.
Nirodbaran: All this talk about soldier to soldier must be a hoax. How can one think it to be true after seeing the acceptance of such terms? How could they accept such a peace?
Sri Aurobindo: They will accept anything. If they are asked to give Morocco to Spain or Indo-China to Japan they will agree.
Nirodbaran: There is no mention of colonies in the terms.
Sri Aurobindo: That will come in the final peace terms. It is only an armistice now – unless it is left to Italy to demand it. Their original plan was that Germany would take the north of France and Italy the south, now it comes almost to that and the French Government is interned with no communication with the outside world.
Nirodbaran: If the navy and the air force don’t come back?
Sri Aurobindo: They can’t be brought back. Hitler may then say that the armistice terms have been broken and he will occupy the whole of France.
Purani: And how will Hitler subjugate the colonies that don’t accept the French Government? In the Middle East the authorities have said they will fight on. Pétain will have to send the French fleet against them.
Sri Aurobindo: The navy won’t do; he will have to send land troops.
Purani: Then he can transport them by the French navy.
Sri Aurobindo: That will be too obvious an alliance with Hitler and will make people still more furious. The Mother said that the bazaar people were so frightened that when they heard of England’s promise of assistance and of a National Committee in London, they were relieved. You have seen in Saigon how the people crowded round the British embassy and expressed their allegiance to the Allies. But the public alone is not enough. The soldiers and the officers must also accept them.
Nirodbaran: Now that Laval is appointed a minister it is clear that he was acting from behind.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, now what will be the plight of the refugees who have taken shelter in France – Czechs, Belgians, Italians and Poles? They will have to be surrendered to Hitler and will undergo severe trials.
Nirodbaran: Some people here still believe that Hitler has no eye on India as he does not want colonies.
Sri Aurobindo: He is talking of colonies now.
Nirodbaran: I don’t see what can prevent him from coming to India if Britain goes down. And they say that Hitlerism after all may not be much worse than imperialism.
Sri Aurobindo: Good Lord!
Purani: Y says that. I told him that under Hitlerism he won’t be allowed even to talk of freedom.
Sri Aurobindo: Not only that, nobody will be allowed to think or speak anything worthwhile. Of course one can think, but most people are fed by others’ thoughts and writings. Very few can think for themselves. Under Italy it would be the same except perhaps with a little less thorough suppression. Under Russia too the same. Japan might allow thought and speech so long as you don’t say anything offensive against the police and the State.
Purani: If France is not allowed commerce, the people will be in an awful plight.
Sri Aurobindo: In winter there is likely to be starvation in all the occupied areas. Without crops and exports how will they survive? There is failure of crops this year, they say. In all the countries occupied by Hitler, the same fate will visit them. Denmark was a prosperous country, its prosperity has gone; so too with Belgium. The Scandinavian countries were some of the most advanced economically. They tried to solve the problem of poverty. Now all that is gone. The German invasion has come as a cataclysm. It is on the way to destroying all civilisation.
Purani: Subscriptions raised here for the war won’t be sent to France, they say.
Satyendra: What will be the state of the French currency if the colonies recognise the Bordeaux Government?
Sri Aurobindo: Then we will lose all our money and the Ashram will have to be dissolved. But if they decide to side with Britain, there won’t be any trouble. If Pondicherry recognises the Bordeaux Government the British will at once take possession of it.
Satyendra: Again it is given in the paper that the Americans will keep off.
Nirodbaran: Dilip’s prophecy will be true then? They don’t want to board a sinking ship.
Sri Aurobindo: They will have their own ship sinking.
Nirodbaran: That will be ten or twenty years later.
Sri Aurobindo: Not so long. Hitler won’t wait so long.
Nirodbaran: The Patrika says Germany has built many flat-bottomed boats which will sail from the Scheldt on a calm day and, strongly supported by warships, etc., invade England.
Sri Aurobindo: Every day won’t be calm, and what will they do then? How will they maintain their supplies?
Evening
According to the radio news the Viceroy will be meeting Gandhi and Jinnah during the week.
Satyendra: This Viceroy Linlithgow is a good man.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Purani: Better than Willingdon at any rate.
Nirodbaran: It was Mrs. Willingdon who was worse.
Sri Aurobindo: So Linlithgow is better than Lady Willingdon. (Laughter)
Purani: The French officers, members of the Cercle, are going to send a wire to De Gaulle in England that they will also fight along with the British.
Sri Aurobindo: It will have a moral value but if the Governor sent such a declaration, it would have a political value. De Gaulle should declare at once the names of the members of the National Committee. A single person won’t command confidence.
Satyendra: But the French colonies have appealed already.
Purani: Appealing is not enough. They must repudiate the Government. That is more important.
Sri Aurobindo: Mombrant on hearing the armistice terms said, “It is not armistice, it is treason.” The Patrika says that Laval and Flandin have engineered the whole thing, Laval being friendly with Italy and Flandin with Germany.
Purani: Very soon after the war began, there came the news that there was sabotage in France. The shells that were supplied were too big for the cannons; the ammunition and gunpowder wouldn’t ignite.
Sri Aurobindo: That means that it was in the factories that this happened. Work of the communists?
Purani: Perhaps.
Nirodbaran (After a while): The Viceroy’s and Gandhi’s meeting is Amery’s work.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. We have to see what comes of it. If the British grant what Amery calls Dominion Independence, there is some chance. Or if they agree to what the Indian leaders decide about the nature and formation of their own Government, subject to some conditions, there is also some chance.
Nirodbaran: In Bengal the Governor has formed a war committee representative of all the parties except the Congress. Shyama Prasad and M.N. Mukherji are there.
Sri Aurobindo: The Muslim League also?
Nirodbaran: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: N.R. Sircar?
Nirodbaran: I didn’t see his name. Oh, he is said to be indisposed.
Sri Aurobindo: Really or conveniently? (Laughter)