Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
23 June 1940
According to BBC radio the armistice between France and Germany has been signed. Navy, air force and colonies are supposed to be handed over to Hitler. But French radio from Saigon said nothing.
Purani: If the navy and air force revolt and join the British? (Sri Aurobindo simply shook his hands meaning “I don’t know what they will do.”) Romania also has declared itself totally in line with the Axis Powers.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh! The whole world seems to have been taken up by self-interest, cowardice and treachery.
Nirodbaran: It makes the situation very complicated.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Nirodbaran: But Russia may intervene if Romania goes over. She has her claims in Bessarabia.
Sri Aurobindo: She has been assured and so may not press them now. If Turkey also backs out and Gibraltar goes, then England will be in a precarious condition.
Nirodbaran: Still there are people in the Ashram who think that Hitler wants only his old colonies and nothing more.
Sri Aurobindo: He may not till he has consolidated his position in France. Didn’t the American consul say that Germany wants France’s colonies and a little more?
Purani: France may establish a Fascist dictatorship. This present Government is all right-wing people.
Sri Aurobindo: Fascist dictatorship under a dictator?
Satyendra: Has it been in the paper?
Purani: That is not necessary. One can surmise because they are right-wingers.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, in the extreme right wing there are two sections. One wants Fascist dictatorship and the other wants to bring back monarchy.
Purani: Hitler may try a blockade on England.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, if he has control of the Mediterranean then it will be dangerous.
Nirodbaran: But before that the English navy has to be crushed – unless the French navy surrenders to Hitler.
Purani: The French navy and Italian submarines will be powerful enough – if America joins the war!
Sri Aurobindo: If Roosevelt can conquer the anti-intervention feeling …
Nirodbaran: By the inclusion of two Republicans into his administration, the situation seems a little worse.
Sri Aurobindo: How?
Purani: Has it been confirmed that they have been disowned by the party?
Sri Aurobindo: No, they have said that they owe allegiance to the President.
Nirodbaran: But the Republican Party has said that it is strongly pro-Allies and wants to lead America to war. The appointment of two of its members speaks for itself.
Satyendra: How is England going to fight alone?
Sri Aurobindo: If she can win against the Germans, it would mean that she is specially protected.
Nirodbaran: But why should there be a special treaty with Italy?
Sri Aurobindo: Perhaps Italy has special demands.
Nirodbaran: Hitler is protecting Italy’s interests. (Laughter)
Purani: Gandhi writes in the Harijan that violence hasn’t improved the moral stature of man. Non-violence can do that.
Sri Aurobindo: But he is putting the cart before the horse. The moral stature has to be improved before man becomes non-violent.
Satyendra: Sarojini Naidu seems to have visited Ramana Maharshi. She writes that she has seen two Mahans. One is Maharshi and the other Gandhi. Maharshi gives peace.
Sri Aurobindo: And Gandhi gives Charkha? (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: There seems to be a Khaksar movement in Bengal also.
Sri Aurobindo: I see; I didn’t know that. In Bihar it exists, so it may also be in Bengal.
Nirodbaran: The Hindustan Standard says that the Government is not taking any measures against it while it talks of communists and other people.
Sri Aurobindo: The Hindustan Standard is Bose’s paper, isn’t it?
Nirodbaran: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: Then why doesn’t it object? They are half Mohammedans themselves!
Evening
Purani: It seems to me that very soon there will be a revolution in France. There will be dissatisfaction in the army and among various parties. Already with the peace-terms many sections are dissatisfied.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, within a year of Hitler’s going.
Purani: I don’t know if they will wait even for that. The French are such people.
Satyendra: Revolution is in their blood and tradition.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but there won’t be much chance of success in Hitler’s time. There are very few Monarchists and Fascists. Most are Republicans. It seems many Leftist leaders have reached London along with rich Jews and others.
Nirodbaran: In that case it will fulfil the prophecy that France will become communist!
Sri Aurobindo: All the prophecies have proved wrong. Those from Pondicherry said that from the 23rd June Hitler’s fall will begin, and those from Bombay chose the 20th. Prophecies can’t be relied on. A French astrologer says that as regards world events European prophecies have always proved wrong while Hindu astrologers were right. Who are these Hindu astrologers? Kapali Shastri also couldn’t say anything about the Year of the Gods.
Purani: No.
Sri Aurobindo: They have spoken about past events.
Satyendra: In the Bhavishya Purana there are some prophecies.
Purani: They are more historical.
Sri Aurobindo: Apart from historical ones, there are others too. Isn’t it so?
Purani: Yes, but they are more individual than general. The writer speaks there of the return of the House of Delhi.
Sri Aurobindo: The House of Delhi? Mogul? That is finished.
Purani: He means Rajput. As regards historical events, the Bhavishya Purana deals with them up to the advent and establishment of British rule in India.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. I remember how during the Swadeshi movement the Bengal revolutionaries used to quote passages from it to show the downfall of the British.
Nirodbaran: Have you seen that Bose is trying to make a pact with Jinnah?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. What about Pakistan then?
Nirodbaran: He will agree to it.
Sri Aurobindo: Does he want to Mohammedanise Bengal?
Nirodbaran: Have you read Gandhi’s statement today? He supports the French surrender, saying they did well by bowing to the inevitable.
Sri Aurobindo: It was not inevitable.
Purani: He adds: provided the terms are honourable.
Nirodbaran: And provided they refuse to be a party to mutual destruction.
Sri Aurobindo: Does that mean that you go on being defeated till you are destroyed? If according to him peace is the aim of life, why fight at all, violently or non-violently? You can simply go on peacefully with love for – what is that fellow’s name?
Purani: Virawalla?
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, with love in your heart for Virawalla.
Purani: He says fighting Hitlerism will produce super-Hitlerism, and that is no solution. Now regarding the gospel of Charkha, he says its purpose is not only economic but it is a great instrument of training in discipline and other moral qualities.
Sri Aurobindo: I see. Why Charkha then? Why not cricket? You can play cricket with love in your heart for the bowler? (Laughter) I suppose it is because Charkha is a weary and monotonous business that it helps more to discipline. Is that it? (Laughter)
(After a while) If Bhaskar’s new version of radio news is true it means that the Germans will occupy all the ports and frontiers and coasts and the French will be interned in Paris and places around it.
Purani: Yes.