Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
9 July 1940
Purani: The German troops are being concentrated on the Franco-Spanish frontier. Hitler wants to march through Spain to Gibraltar.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, that may be his intention. I don’t see then how the British can hold out against him.
Nirodbaran: Is Hitler working in collaboration with Franco?
Sri Aurobindo: Of course.
Nirodbaran: Then Portugal also would be left out.
Sri Aurobindo: No.
Purani: Hitler is trying to cut off supplies.
Nirodbaran: Not only that. If he gets Gibraltar, he can block the Mediterranean gate.
Sri Aurobindo: That must be his intention, as he can’t invade England directly. With Spanish Morocco and Tangier on the other side, the route will be closed.
Nirodbaran: Won’t that put the British in a bad plight?
Sri Aurobindo: Not in a bad plight, but certainly in some difficulty.
Purani: Romania has lined up with the Axis.
Sri Aurobindo: It had already done that before.
Purani: Yes, but now it has openly declared it and cut off oil supplies to England. Some Englishmen have left Romania. The Nazis seem to say, “Oh, it is too friendly!” (Laughter) Obviously Germany is afraid of Russia. To turn to Indian affairs: the Congress has asked for a declaration of complete independence in the future.
Satyendra: Yes, and a provisional National Government at the Centre.
Sri Aurobindo: On what lines? What about the defence?
Satyendra: Nothing about it, perhaps. The details aren’t out yet.
Sri Aurobindo: In that case what remains of independence?
Nirodbaran: They say that only when everything is in their hands can they throw their full weight behind the defence of the country.
Sri Aurobindo: Defence against whom?
Purani: Pétain has become a Führer.
Sri Aurobindo: Not yet, going to be.
Purani: He says that now is the last phase of the third Republic and the motto will be not Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, but Work, Family and Patrie.
Sri Aurobindo: That is the Fascist motto.
Purani: The priests are happy because Pétain is a Catholic.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, but our position will be bad. If a Catholic government takes control, then our Ashram won’t be allowed to exist.
Nirodbaran: All moves seem to fall on us in some way or other.
Sri Aurobindo: Of course. The Asura is more concerned with us than anything else. He is inventing new situations so that we may fall into difficulty. Nazis, Fascists and communists are all against us and we are safe under none of them. Mussolini perhaps may allow us to continue.
Satyendra: He has read some of your books.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes.
Nirodbaran: He will allow us so long as he is not criticised.
Purani: It seems Bonvain is unable to communicate with the Pétain Government. The British office won’t accept his telegrams.
Sri Aurobindo: Then we may be safe, at least during the war, unless they send somebody by aeroplane which may be shot down by mistake by the British.
Purani: But the aeroplane has to land at Karachi – unless they make a nonstop flight from Syria, for example.
The French are again accusing the British of having dislodged Weygand.
Nirodbaran: The British staff officer’s reply that Weygand’s plan was good on paper but not in practice, makes one suspect that the allegation is true.
Satyendra: Yes, he should not have said that.
Sri Aurobindo: But they don’t say they disobeyed him. His plan may have been strategic at the beginning but after the German breakthrough and encirclement, things changed. And then they disagreed about the plan.
Satyendra: There must have been some agreement afterwards, otherwise how could the evacuation of French soldiers have taken place?
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.
Purani: These are all political views put forth by the French leaders, not by the military. They are dictated by the German High Command.
Satyendra: If they have surrendered everything, why did they fight at all? Without their co-operation, England would have kept aloof.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, England could have been on the defensive. But England has learnt one lesson from the fight. She could have gone on evading Hitler and then been put to some difficulty later, but now she knows all his tactics.
Nirodbaran: Has Gandhi himself proclaimed independence for India or has the Working Committee forced it on him?
Sri Aurobindo: It must be his own move. He is warning the Congress against accepting Dominion Status.
Nirodbaran: Our fate seems to be changing. Before we were under the French and now perhaps we will be under the British.
Satyendra: Can’t say; everything is in a flux.
Sri Aurobindo: The British, at least, won’t give in so easily to the Government in France.
Satyendra: No.
Purani (after reading a letter from X stating that a court judgment had been in her favour by the grace of Sri Aurobindo and Sri Krishna): Setalvad’s son, who is the Advocate General and related to the lady, may have spoken to and influenced the judges against her husband who is a drunkard.
Sri Aurobindo: But do the judges discuss a case with anyone when it is sub judice? If he is defending the case it is different.
Purani: No, he is not defending it.
Nirodbaran: In Calcutta the judges are said to take bribes.
Sri Aurobindo: In Calcutta?
Nirodbaran: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: High Court judges?
Nirodbaran: People say so.
Sri Aurobindo: People say all sorts of things. One can’t believe what people say. Mofussil judges may sometimes take bribes, but I don’t think High Court judges do. The British judges have so far kept a very high standard.
Evening
Sri Aurobindo: The Mother said that the 10th of last month seemed to have been significant.