Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

15 July 1940

Satyendra: The British Government has issued a notice that France and her African possessions will be treated as enemy countries as regards trade. All trade is forbidden with them. They don’t mention Indo-China or Pondicherry perhaps because they have declared a status quo. They know that if there is no trade, they won’t get anything from outside.

Sri Aurobindo: And nothing from inside. (Laughter)

Purani: Sammer must be glad over the arrest of workers in France. He says that Fascism will help towards bringing about communism in France.

Sri Aurobindo: How? It is Germany that has arrested the workers because they refused to work.

Purani: Oh, I see.

Satyendra: But that was one of the conditions of the armistice.

Sri Aurobindo: The workers didn’t make the armistice! (Laughter) Gandhi ought to be happy because of their passive resistance.

Purani: I think Germany may try to push the French soldiers to war against England.

Sri Aurobindo: Not likely, because to do that Hitler will have to arm France which he doesn’t want to do. He hoped to get the navy.

Nirodbaran: He must have made a mistake if he hoped that.

Sri Aurobindo: Evidently he hoped. Now that he can’t get it, he is getting whatever he can by plunder.

Satyendra: Yes. All the money and jewels in the banks. Investments are prohibited without permission.

Nirodbaran: England has made a three-month agreement with Japan regarding the Burma route. But China may not be affected much.

Sri Aurobindo: It will be affected considerably.

Satyendra: The Japanese radio has been declaring that England must concede the demands. Otherwise they will have to take the necessary steps. So England has given way.

Sri Aurobindo: England can’t deal with anything else now except Hitler. She can’t deal with Japan or Russia.

Satyendra: Churchill saw long ago the necessity of alliance with Russia and also the need of increasing the air force.

Nirodbaran: And Chamberlain did neither. And still he has a big influence.

Sri Aurobindo: That is because he looks after the class interest while Churchill sees what is good for England.

Purani: Italy has published a long article, it seems, on the New Order in Europe and if England doesn’t recognise it, she will have to pay the price.

Sri Aurobindo: Even if she recognises it, she will have to pay. (Laughter)

Purani: It says war on England is to begin in a week.

Sri Aurobindo: A German paper says England won’t enjoy another weekend. Hitler will appear in a triumphal march on 27th July for which windows are being hired.

Satyendra: That means hardly two weeks.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. I don’t know how he is going to do it.

Nirodbaran: Italy says her navy will involve the British navy in engagements in the meantime.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): Not involve it in engagements but threaten to engage it, so that it may not go elsewhere. If there were actual engagements, there wouldn’t be any Italian navy left to keep the British navy engaged. Italy knows this very well.

Nirodbaran: Britain seems to be mediating between Japan and China.

Sri Aurobindo: That is what the Governor of Malaya says. If true, he shouldn’t have said it.

After this there was an interval in which Satyendra, Champaklal and Purani were talking among themselves. There was a stain on Satyendra’s shirt which brought up the following topic.

Champaklal: Paul Richard used to say that a stain on the clothes means a stain on the soul. If he saw any stain on his clothes – a dhobi stain even – he would be very angry and consider it a stain on his soul.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): If it was a dhobi stain, it would be a stain on the washerman’s soul. (Laughter) That was one thing Richard believed in – signs, emblems, omens, etc.

Champaklal: Every time he saw a stain, it would make him angry.

Sri Aurobindo: If he knew the cause of the stain, why should he be angry afterwards?

Satyendra: He did not like the cause to be revealed to him. (Laughter)

Sri Aurobindo: He revealed it himself. If a clothes stain had been a stain on the soul, then no place would have been left on his soul. (Laughter) But the soul has no stain.

Purani: No, that’s how I argued with him saying that according to Hindu philosophy the soul is pure and immaculate. It can have no stain.

Sri Aurobindo: He means the vital being, perhaps.

Purani: Yes, he was a very self-contradictory man. At one moment he would say one thing, at the next another.

When others had gone, Purani said Hitler was not getting any inspiration to attack England.

Sri Aurobindo: No, nobody knows what he has up his sleeve. But I don’t think that he can attack. He can attack by air and destroy the industrial centres, which will be something. Britain’s air force also has increased but it is still inferior in number. She is inferior in the army also. There are now about three million men in arms. They will be sufficient to deal with Hitler if he makes a land attack, for he can’t first land his whole army and armoured units. Most probably he has not worked out his plan yet.

Purani: Or he may be considering various possibilities that may come in his way.

Sri Aurobindo: That doesn’t matter to him. He never considers possibilities. If he gets the right inspiration, possibilities don’t matter. That is how he goes against all the generals who show him various possibilities that may go against his ideas. All through he has been guided by inspiration and he has gone ahead depending on luck. Regarding France, Poland and all other countries he had set out a plan beforehand and carried it out. But regarding England nobody knows what he has. He has a most original mind, because it is not his own mind.

I can understand if he wanted to take Gibraltar first. That wouldn’t be difficult; then he could go to Africa and destroy the British Empire there which would be a great stroke. Then he can turn towards Asia unless Russia comes in the way. The British island can then remain as it is. Of course it will still have its navy. But Germany is a land power.

Evening

The second volume of The Life Divine (in two parts) has come out. The two volumes are very big in size. Sri Aurobindo said they were like two elephants. We were discussing the price (Rs. 16) which seemed too high. Especially Satyendra asked how the money was to be got. He said some people (meaning himself) had deposited the money in advance and had withdrawn it.

Sri Aurobindo: Well, after all, the publishers try to solve all the problems of existence. (Laughter)

Satyendra: That they do both internally and externally; they are very sound in every way. I was, in fact, wishing for this book to come out. Nirod has not finished the first volume yet.

Sri Aurobindo (laughing): By the time you finish the three volumes, you will become a philosopher. (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: I doubt it.

Satyendra: It doesn’t follow.

Sri Aurobindo: No?

Nirodbaran: Some say Part I of Volume II is the most difficult.

Sri Aurobindo: The psychological and metaphysical chapters may be difficult.

Nirodbaran: What has the sale been like in America?

Sri Aurobindo: There were some orders from America, but there are no books available. Biswanath couldn’t send any.

Satyendra: Now they are busy with something else and can’t take any interest in The Life Divine.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, busy with bombs.