Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

17 July 1940

Sri Aurobindo (smiling and addressing Purani): Hitler’s hope of a triumphal march into England is diminishing day by day.

Purani: Yes, there is yet no sign of any preparation to attack.

Sri Aurobindo: I see only two ways possible – either landing troops in spite of the British navy or an attack by air. No other way seems possible.

Nirodbaran: Could it not be a bluff, for an attack somewhere else?

Sri Aurobindo: That is another matter.

Nirodbaran: If Gandhi’s proposal to Britain to offer only passive resistance had been accepted, perhaps Hitler’s hope would have been fulfilled. (Laughter)

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. They appreciated his proposal but couldn’t consider it.

Purani: Churchill has made a very fine speech.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, he was inspired.

Purani: Exact, precise and summing up the situation very well.

Nirodbaran: But he takes good care not to say a word about India – all Europe, the continent, America come into it. Half of the speech was devoted to France.

Sri Aurobindo: He has been always a lover of France.

Satyendra: To what a pass England has come to declare the battle at Oran a great naval success!

Sri Aurobindo: Success? No, it was to prove the decisiveness of the British and their readiness to fight to the last. Otherwise it was no battle.

Satyendra: England has now found a leader. If she is defeated it will be due to her position and karma.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. If she had declared Dominion Status to India, then a large part of her karma would have been wiped off.

Satyendra: That was also what Gandhi’s moral support meant.

Sri Aurobindo: No, moral support is quite different.

Purani: The Statesman, whose editor is Moore, has again written for Dominion Status, and in the Hindu also some Briton wrote of it yesterday.

Sri Aurobindo: They are only individuals. If Amery were strong and firm against the Simla attitude, then he could do something. Till now he hasn’t said anything against the granting of Dominion Status.

Purani: If English opinion also turned in our favour?

Sri Aurobindo: No, English opinion won’t do. It is the opinion of the House of Commons and that of the Conservatives that matter. Some of the Conservatives are in favour of it but it must be the majority and I think the majority doesn’t want any drastic change. The majority are under Chamberlain. I am almost sure they are standing in the way; otherwise, with the Labour pressure and with the Liberals also joining, something would have been done. Of course they have some trouble over Jinnah. They don’t want to create any trouble among the Muslims just now.

Purani: He has been put up by the Government.

Sri Aurobindo: I don’t think so. Wherever it suits him, he goes against the Viceroy. I think he has put up himself.

Satyendra: He has taken up an impossible attitude. There is no chance of any agreement.

Sri Aurobindo: Unless on such terms as the Khilafat and whatever other demands they make.

Nirodbaran: Or Pakistan. India’s karma is also standing in the way. So many years’ slavery hasn’t wiped off the karma.

Sri Aurobindo: Slavery doesn’t wipe off the karma.

Satyendra: Slavery associated with suffering.

Sri Aurobindo: Provided you learn from suffering. (Laughter)

Satyendra: That is a different matter.

Purani: Jinnah is a sort of dictator. He wants to be obeyed in everything and he would discard no means for his aim.

Sri Aurobindo: In that case it would be bad for Huque and Sikandar. (After a while) If the Hindus consent to accept Jinnah as their Badshah, then he may agree. He will say, “Oh the cause of the Hindus is so dear to my heart!” (Laughter)

Satyendra: And Jinnah is demanding fifty-fifty representation.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, soon he will say that the pressure exerted by the Hindu fifty is too much for Muslims and will claim another twenty-five out of the fifty.

Satyendra: How?

Sri Aurobindo: Why not? I think Sir Akbar’s son is also standing in the way. He has some influence with the Viceroy.

Nirodbaran: Which son? The one who came here?

Sri Aurobindo: No. This one won’t come here any more than he would think of going to hell. (Laughter)

Evening

Satyendra: America is going to follow an independent policy in the East.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes. She has no claim to make in China.

Purani: It seems according to N.S.N. that on 27th May the Japanese Army was routed by the Chinese.

Sri Aurobindo: Who writes that?

Purani: Some military correspondent.

Sri Aurobindo: With the Chinese?

Purani: Yes.

Sri Aurobindo: Can’t be believed! The Japanese claim that only eighty thousand Japanese have been killed so far, while the Chinese make it out to be half a million. Evidently neither number is true. Even if the Chinese estimate is true, it doesn’t seem to make any difference to the war, and the Chinese are nowhere near driving out the Japanese. War is still going on. The Chinese are braggarts and the Japanese follow a silent policy till the whole thing is done.

Purani: After the resignation of the Japanese Cabinet, it is probable that Prince Konoye will be the Premier. He doesn’t know what will be the policy, Fascist or otherwise. If Fascist, the Japanese may line up with the Axis.

Sri Aurobindo: If they do that, they will be bound to the Axis and later on Italy and Germany may want to enter in the East, which the Japanese won’t like and which is against their policy. Japan’s aim is to turn all the Europeans out of Asia. So if she joins the Axis it will be only to suit her present position and purpose.

(After a while) I don’t want the Japanese to go down in the fight against the Chinese because they may be needed as a counterbalance against Germany or Russia when, in case England goes down, they try to come to Asia. That is the only chance for India. While they fight each other, India can prepare herself, provided people like Jinnah and Bose are not there.

Nirodbaran: But if England goes down, Japan may herself grab India.

Sri Aurobindo: She may. But out of the three evils, she may be the best and I don’t think she will annex India. She may start some Government as in Manchuria. The Chinese can’t be relied on to fight against Russia or Germany. Everyone knows that Italy has her eye on Asia Minor and that Germany wants to get into Baghdad. Japan won’t like that. She won’t like the “barbarians” taking possession of Asia.

Nirodbaran: Roosevelt is standing for election after all.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, of course, he was manoeuvring all the time.