Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

6 October 1940

Purani: Sarkar says that art was at first religious everywhere; only India has remained where she was, while Europe has gone forward.

Sri Aurobindo: That is all right, but where?

Purani: Going round!

Sri Aurobindo: And backward. They have gone farther back than we have ever done.

Purani: What seems to me the point is not whether art is religious; it is the inner vision, the inlook, so to say, by which an artist creates, that matters.

Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. Sarkar is scientific.

Purani: I remember Arjava used to see Krishnalal’s pictures like that – the scheme, line, composition – the geometry of art, so to say. Poor Krishnalal couldn’t make head or tail of his criticism.

Sri Aurobindo: He practised without knowing!

Nirodbaran: Moore’s article on Gandhi is very strong.

Sri Aurobindo (smiling): Have you read it?

Nirodbaran: Yes.

Purani: Yes, it is very strongly worded.

Nirodbaran: But he goes a little too far. He doesn’t believe that non-cooperation has done any good – on the contrary it has done much harm, he says.

Purani: What non-cooperation has done is to show people in a combined state, united in action for a common purpose and thus it has given solidarity and a sense of unity.

Satyendra: It has helped to awaken the mass-consciousness tremendously.

Sri Aurobindo: That, of course.

Purani: Non-violence has been brought in by Gandhi as a principle, while Azad and others have accepted it only as a policy.

Sri Aurobindo: Non-cooperation is nothing new. It is the same as the Swadeshi movement. Only, we had no non-violence. Holland is using non-violence by a violent abuse of words.

Purani: Abhay says this is the time to preach non-violence to people in Europe when they are down with the curse of war and violence.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, to preach but not to practise!

Evening

C.R. Das has delivered a speech in answer to the Madras Governor. He says that it is easy to sneer at non-violence during war, but it was the non-violent movement that overcame the terrorist activities that had been raging before the war and converted the terrorists.

Sri Aurobindo: That is saying too much. They were not converted: when they saw that their movement was a failure, they took this up as a policy.

Satyendra: When there was repression everywhere by the Government, it was only this non-violent movement that could have been produced and it helped to awaken the masses.

Sri Aurobindo: That, yes. But that was due to the non-cooperation movement, non-violence serving only as a policy. And it succeeded because the common people thought it would give them freedom from the Zamindars. Everybody except Gandhi took it up as a policy and, if you do that, then there is no quarrel.

Satyendra: Gandhi himself was not so strict about non-violence before. In 1928 he said that government by use of force may be necessary. Only recently has he made non-violence an absolute faith.

Sri Aurobindo: No, even at that time it was in his mind. If you keep it for religious and ethical matters, nothing can be said against it. But in politics even his own followers accept it with reservation.

Satyendra: Now all are in an uncomfortable position. It seems C.R. would be glad to go back to office.

Sri Aurobindo: That he feels uncomfortable is quite evident. There is no strength in his speech.

Satyendra: If Gandhi had kept out after the Poona meeting, it would have been better for everybody.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, much better.

Purani: This new Madras Governor gave a hint of conceding to Congress demands for a national government at the Centre. So C.R. took it up.

Sri Aurobindo: In fact many Governors were in favour of it. This Governor came fresh from England and didn’t know the official mind.