Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
20 October 1940
Purani: Gandhi has declared his programme: he will start civil disobedience with twenty people of his Ashram – no outsiders – including two ladies, and he has even asked the Congress Working Committee members not to attend the meetings.
Sri Aurobindo: And if the Government doesn’t arrest them?
Satyendra: He may go through the whole of India and he will establish the right of free speech.
Sri Aurobindo: But only Gandhi’s followers may not be arrested. Others won’t be free. He is fighting for freedom for everybody. Is this the new movement? Nothing new there!
Purani: It seems Azad differed from Gandhi and was on the point of resigning!
Sri Aurobindo: As far as that?
Purani: Yes, he doesn’t believe in ethical movements. He wants non-violence as a political weapon like others. But he was persuaded to stay on.
Sri Aurobindo: But if these people are not arrested, what will be the next move?
Purani: Gandhi doesn’t say. Perhaps he will wait for inspiration.
Satyendra: But Pattabhi knows.
Sri Aurobindo: How?
Satyendra: Yes, he seems to know all about Gandhi’s scheme and writes about it in the papers.
Sri Aurobindo: What did he write?
Satyendra: The Indian Express cut a joke at his cost.
Sri Aurobindo: It is as somebody said, “Only God and Hitler know what Hitler will do next,” so only God and Pattabhi know what Gandhi will do? (Laughter)
Nirodbaran: Like Dinabandhu Mitra writing an epilogue to Bankim’s novels?
Sri Aurobindo: How is that?
Nirodbaran: As soon as Bankim had finished a novel, Mitra used to come out with a conclusion imitating Bankim’s manner, style, etc. Bankim said that he wouldn’t be able to write any more because of this man.
Sri Aurobindo: I see! He married off Ayesha to Jagat Singh?
Nirodbaran: Something like that.
Purani: There seems to be some truth about sixty thousand German soldiers being killed on September 15 when Hitler planned to invade England. It was reported at that time.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh, it was reported? That staved off the invasion then? If only during embarkation sixty thousand were killed, then in crossing and landing how many more died? Everybody who wanted to invade England stumbled against England’s sea power. Now I don’t think there is any chance of an invasion, because all of Hitler’s plans have been exposed and seen.
Purani: Yes, the British R.A.F. is now able to know Germany’s moves and preparations. Hitler now admits to Britain’s naval power.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh! it won’t be long before he admits to Britain’s air power too.
Satyendra: Russia says that Germany and England are equal in air power.
Sri Aurobindo: Equal in force, not number.
Purani: If they can start invading Germany …
Sri Aurobindo: That will take about a year more. A standing army of one-and-a-half million is not enough for that.
Satyendra: Each side is now at a stalemate.
Purani: Unless some unknown factor supervenes, one doesn’t know how long it will go on.
Sri Aurobindo: The only unknown factor is Russia or America coming in. America seems to have come to an understanding with Russia. That may be the reason for their sending war materials. But for America to enter the war with the complete equipment of her mechanised army will still take one or two years. In reply to Russia’s note, Germany seems to have said that her step in Romania is directed against any aggression – nothing more. If any other power threatens, Germany will fight, which means that she is quite ready to fight Russia if Russia attacks Romania.
Purani: If Turkey is attacked by Germany what Russia will do, I wonder.
Sri Aurobindo: Don’t know.
Nirodbaran: Russia is also interested in Bulgaria.
Sri Aurobindo: It was Russia under the Czar that liberated the Balkans and, if the Czar were there, they would have inclined towards Russia. Now they are afraid of both Russia and Germany.
Purani: There was a short engagement with the Italian navy in the Mediterranean in which the British destroyed two or three Italian cruisers.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, only a short engagement is possible with Italy.
Evening
The evening radio says that Yugoslavia has signed a protocol with Germany as regards economic and political matters.
Sri Aurobindo (to Purani): Have you seen Yugoslavia’s agreement with Germany?
Purani: Yes, they are coming to an understanding.
Sri Aurobindo: No, not only understanding; they have signed a protocol by which Yugoslavia is dependent on Germany economically and politically, which means everything. If the news is true, that is the beginning of the end of the Balkans, because Bulgaria won’t resist. Greece will be at its wit’s end without Turkey’s help and what can Turkey do all alone? So Hitler comes to Asia Minor and that means India. This is what I thought, long before, that Hitler might do in the Balkans. The Asura is up to his tricks again. Now Hitler’s moves are quite clear. He will try to move towards the Mediterranean, taking possession of the Suez and then Egypt with a simultaneous movement into Spain for Gibraltar with the help of Franco if willing or, if unwilling, without his help and by replacing him with Sumer. That is why he has probably asked Sumer to wait. After Egypt, he will try to take North Africa with Pétain’s consent. If Pétain refuses, he may place Laval at the head. And if both refuse, then he will occupy the whole of France and the Mediterranean ports. Then through Spain he can move to Africa. All this will be most dangerous to England and the blockade won’t be effective any more. In fact I felt this danger from the very beginning of the war.
Nirodbaran: But will Russia remain quiet all through?
Sri Aurobindo: It seems to be like that till now. Except for a short inquiry about Romanian affairs she has done nothing. Don’t know what has happened to Stalin’s brain.
Purani: Even if she comes in, it will be too late afterwards. She should come in now.
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so. It is because of the lack of her support that these powers are breaking down. They know that England can’t do anything to support them because England can’t help them with land forces. Even Italy by herself outnumbers England.
Nirodbaran: Turkey is depending too much on Russia. As nobody knows what Russia’s motive is, it can’t be safe for Turkey. If Russia betrays her?
Sri Aurobindo: Exactly. You remember what that Turkish lady – Dilip’s friend – said? She said that England is a decadent nation; Turkey won’t profit by joining with her. And when she was asked what Turkey’s fate would be if England went down, she said, “Why? We will join Russia!”
Nirodbaran: I wonder if Stalin has made a secret pact with Hitler.
Sri Aurobindo: That is what all suspect. But what will be the value of any such pact if England is defeated? Then Italy, Germany and Japan will all turn on Russia.
Nirodbaran: How, if Greece and Turkey together put up resistance to Hitler?
Sri Aurobindo: That would be an effective check. England could come in with her air and navy.
Purani: Yes, and Italy could have a little fun from the R.A.F.
Sri Aurobindo: But the world is under a double curse of stupidity and cowardice. This Hitler is very supple. He takes one step at a time, not the whole movement. When he saw that he had been baulked on one side, he turned to his other side, the danger I had anticipated from the very start.
Nirodbaran: Now England has only America to rely on.
Purani: But America is not prepared. She has only a seventy thousand strong army which she must keep for her own defence because she herself runs some danger.
Sri Aurobindo: She is in no immediate danger unless Hitler establishes himself in South America. That is not possible as long as there is the British fleet.
Nirodbaran: They could get help from India if they started munitions factories.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, they are going at a snail’s pace. Starting now an aeroplane factory at Bangalore!