Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
27 December 1940
Dr. Manilal: My shoulder pain is still persisting, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: It is responding to the wind, probably.
Dr. Manilal: Just near the insertion of the deltoid, Sir. Can’t turn my arm backward.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, yes, I also have a pain in the same place. You must have passed it on to me. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: How to get rid of it, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: Don’t identify with it.
Dr. Manilal: But how?
Sri Aurobindo: It is a sort of inner movement. Or else make just those movements that bring on the pain.
Dr. Manilal: That causes pain, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: Doesn’t matter. (Laughter) Or try to go up out of the body. Get rid of the old Sanskaras of the body.
At this time Manilal was sipping Padodaka, the water in which the Guru’s feet are washed, and applying some of it to his shoulder.
Purani: The pain has already gone. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: It is very much there.
Purani: No, no, I tell you it has gone.
Sri Aurobindo: He wants to make you believe that the pain has gone but you don’t believe it. Or rather you believe but your arm doesn’t. You identify with the arm.
Dr. Manilal: Last evening your knee was bending more than usual Sir, wasn’t it?
Sri Aurobindo: Maybe.
Dr. Manilal: Coming almost to a right angle.
Sri Aurobindo: I could have bent it more but I was afraid that if I tried Purani would fall on me with the chair. (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo used to sit on the edge of a chair and do the bending. Purani would stand behind the chair and hold the back of it lest the chair fall forward with Sri Aurobindo’s weight on its edge.
Purani: No, I was prepared for all eventualities.
Dr. Manilal: Arthur Luther, Sir, thrust his hand into the fire.
Sri Aurobindo: Luther? You mean Archbishop Cranmer? Your knowledge of history is extraordinary! Neither was his name Arthur. What about it?
Dr. Manilal: When his hand was burning, did he not feel pain, Sir? How could he keep his hand in the fire? Did he do it stoically?
Sri Aurobindo: How stoically?
Dr. Manilal: I mean in spite of the pain he endured the suffering. Or did he feel no pain at all?
Sri Aurobindo: He may not have done it stoically but out of religious feeling. One can separate oneself from the body and then pain doesn’t affect one.
Dr. Manilal: Is it possible, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: Why not?
Nirodbaran: Nishtha was asking again whether, since the Mother doesn’t know everything, she has to tell everything to the Mother, every detail. She also says that everything comes from the Divine. In that case there is no need to do Yoga, I said. She is wondering whether it wouldn’t be better for her to resume the vitamin pills she was taking before and says that the suggestion may have come from the Divine.
Sri Aurobindo: The suggestion to stop may have come from the Divine too.
Nirodbaran: I told her what you said to us the other day about the Mother knowing things. She thinks that mental prayer is not sincere and so won’t be heard by the Divine. The prayer must come from a deeper source.
Sri Aurobindo: Of course, the deeper the source it comes from, the better it is. But why can’t the Divine hear? Is he deaf to mental prayer?
Nirodbaran: I said any sincere prayer is heard.
Sri Aurobindo: He may hear but whether it is answered is different.
Dr. Manilal: Why couldn’t it be answered, Sir? (Laughter)
Sri Aurobindo: Not couldn’t be. Anything could be but it may not be. (Laughter)
Evening
Dr. Manilal: According to our Jain Shastra, there are three or four signs, Sir, by which gods can be recognised. Their feet don’t touch the ground, their eyes don’t blink, the garlands around their necks don’t dry up.
Sri Aurobindo: You will find those signs in the Mahabharata also. There is one more sign. The gods have no shadows.
Dr. Manilal: And they don’t perspire. Is that true, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: Ask the gods.
Dr. Manilal: You are above the gods, Sir.
Sri Aurobindo: I am on earth.
Dr. Manilal: Some time ago the Mother said that the gods – Shiva, Vishnu, etc. – came to the meditation she was giving.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and then?
Dr. Manilal: In what form did they come, Sir?
Sri Aurobindo: What do you mean?
Dr. Manilal: In an image form?
Sri Aurobindo: What is an image? Everything is an image. You are an image. Nirod is an image.
Dr. Manilal: I mean could they be seen as concretely as, for instance, I see Nirod?
Sri Aurobindo: Shiva is as concrete to Vishnu as you are to Nirod. (Laughter)
Dr. Manilal: Were they seen with open eyes?
Sri Aurobindo: One can see with open or closed eyes. But with what sense does one see the gods?
Dr. Manilal: I don’t know, Sir. That was not made clear by the Mother.
Sri Aurobindo: What is there to make clear? One sees them with a subtle sense, not with the material.