Nirodbaran

Talks with Sri Aurobindo

Volume 1

10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941

28 December 1940

In connection with the ex-Maharani’s case, Purani reported that Dilip said he had heard from very reliable sources that the Madras judges had now become corrupt and took bribes. It was not so during Purani’s time.

Sri Aurobindo: Everything going down?

Dr. Manilal: In Bengal also there is much corruption.

Sri Aurobindo: In the High Court?

Dr. Manilal: Yes, Sir.

Sri Aurobindo: I suppose it has come after the new Government – with the advent of H and B. I am wondering what Swaraj will be like.

Nirodbaran: Was there no corruption before?

Sri Aurobindo: Not so much. Bengal and Pondicherry were the only two exceptions.

Nirodbaran: H’s ministry is almost openly doing these things.

Sri Aurobindo: Yes, one has the impression that after this new Government, Bengal has become quite corrupt. There is one good thing about England: it is still free from corruption in public life. Of course England also was at one time corrupt but it has come out of that. Victoria’s time was especially admirable.

Dr. Manilal: France and America also are said to be very corrupt.

Sri Aurobindo: Oh, terrible! Not a single senate member is free from bribery and corruption.

Nirodbaran: What about your shoulder, Dr. Manilal?

Dr. Manilal: Same!

Purani: You shouldn’t have asked. It is all right, isn’t it? I see it is all right.

Sri Aurobindo: It is all right without his knowing it. (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: Yes, Sir. Purani knows it without my knowing myself.

Sri Aurobindo: Knowledge by identity! (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: That would have been all right if by my eating Purani’s hunger would have been satisfied.

Sri Aurobindo: But suppose it is by Purani’s eating that your hunger would be satisfied? (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: If it were, a lot of trouble would be saved, Sir, but it isn’t; my hunger is still as strong.

Sri Aurobindo: Consider it an illusion. (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: I am not a Mayavadin, Sir.

Nirodbaran: Will knowledge by identity give one knowledge of diagnosis of a case?

Sri Aurobindo: If it is complete. If you identify only with the patient’s mind, however, you may not know because the patient himself may not know.

Purani: What will you do with a diagnosis if you don’t know the cure?

Dr. Manilal: Identify with the Mother, not the patient, then you will know everything.

Nirodbaran: But one can also know the right drug.

Sri Aurobindo: Does the right drug always cure?

Nirodbaran: Why not?

Sri Aurobindo: Is every disease curable?

Dr. Manilal: No, Sir, but why isn’t it curable?

Sri Aurobindo: There are conditions.

Nirodbaran: The Divine may cure unconditionally.

Sri Aurobindo: In every case?

Nirodbaran: No, when he chooses.

Sri Aurobindo: That means a condition.

Dr. Manilal: What are the conditions? Faith, aspiration?

Sri Aurobindo: You leave out the important element – receptivity.

Dr. Manilal: Am I receptive, Sir?

Sri Aurobindo: You may be but your shoulder may not.

Dr. Manilal: How to make it receptive?

Sri Aurobindo: Surgical operation. (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: With what scalpel, Sir?

Sri Aurobindo: Opening!

Nirodbaran: Do different parts have different degrees of receptivity?

Sri Aurobindo: Of course. The mind may be receptive but the vital and physical may not, or the mind and the vital may be receptive without the body being so.

Dr. Manilal: But Laxmi’s case was a miracle, Sir, I must say. I thought she would pass away but now she is quite a different person, looks young and energetic.

Purani: It is a question of faith. She has faith in the Mother.

Dr. Manilal: I also have faith.

Sri Aurobindo: You may but what about your arm? Purani wants to make you believe that you are all right but you or your arm won’t believe it.

Dr. Manilal: How can it believe when the pain is still there, Sir? Otherwise I have faith.

Purani: You are not open to the Force then.

Dr. Manilal: All my cells are open. (Laughter)

Nirodbaran: To what?

Dr. Manilal: To Sri Aurobindo’s Force.

Sri Aurobindo: Even your rheumatic cells? (Laughter)

Dr. Manilal: Yes, Sir.

Sri Aurobindo: Open to rheumatism.

Evening

Purani was coughing a little.

Dr. Manilal: You talk of Force. Why don’t you apply it to your own cough?

Sri Aurobindo: He is driving the Germans out with his air force!