Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
21 June 1940
Sri Aurobindo (Addressing Purani): The armistice seems to have failed; the envoys came back almost immediately yesterday. Hitler must have pressed for complete acceptance or complete refusal and didn’t give any chance for discussion. The French Government seems to have gone to Morocco from Bordeaux.
Purani: Then it is all right; no more chance of peace.
Sri Aurobindo: Can’t say. Pétain is dangerous so long as he is in the Government.
Nirodbaran: If the army could now be withdrawn!
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, that is the first thing to do now. If Hitler had got the French fleet, he would have attacked Africa and taken possession of her colonies. Have you seen the other news? That Roosevelt has taken two Republicans into the Government?
Purani: Yes.
Sri Aurobindo: This is unprecedented in history.
Purani: They have been made secretaries of Navy and War. If he plunges into war, he wants to have the Republican party with him perhaps.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes. Another unprecedented step is his standing for a third term.
Purani: The Democrats will nominate him, I hope.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh yes, and then he may decide about the war. If Roosevelt declares war now and somebody else becomes the President, he may disown the policy and it will be very awkward.
Nirodbaran: Italy is not showing herself anywhere – neither on land nor in the air. It seems the Italians could easily be driven out of Africa. Then Mussolini and Hitler can quarrel over France.
Sri Aurobindo: Not so soon. As long as Hitler has England to fight, he will keep Italy with him.
Evening
According to Bhaskar’s radio, peace terms have been placed before Pétain. Laval and fifty other Government officials pledge to support Pétain and all the deputies place their confidence in him. But this report seems to contradict what Gabriel said. He said that it was all untrue. Plenipotentiaries have not returned. Protests are coming to Pétain from all sides against peace and the Government has been removed from Bordeaux. All communications are to be sent to Casablanca in Morocco.
Sri Aurobindo: Probably the plenipotentiaries have refused to sign the terms and Hitler has himself communicated the terms to Pétain. That is how the two news reports can be reconciled. Bhaskar’s news is sometimes very confusing.
Nirodbaran: What is the next news item about Gandhi being absolved of responsibility by the Working Committee?
Sri Aurobindo: Perhaps they want to start civil disobedience and Gandhi is against it. He has always stood against it. So they may want to go ahead on their own initiative.
Nirodbaran: The Patrika gave the news that British papers had published a message from Wardha that Gandhi and others were trying to start a provisional government with the Hindus, Muslims and the untouchables.
Sri Aurobindo: That must come then from Abul Kalam Azad and the Muslim Premier’s conference.
Purani: The American Republican party has disowned the two Republicans Roosevelt has appointed.
Sri Aurobindo: What a pity! Why?
Purani: Because they are strongly pro-English. Not that the Republican party is itself anti-Allies. Spain perhaps will enter the war on Germany’s side.
Nirodbaran: She already took the first step by declaring non-belligerency.
Satyendra: Everybody is taking Hitler’s side.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, and those who have not are afraid of him. Unless America declares war, England will be alone. Egypt is also trying to back out. With Gibraltar on one side and the Suez on the other, England will be in a difficult position, unless she can create some revolution in Egypt and bring in Nahash Pasha. Russia is trying to keep out Turkey.
Nirodbaran: Keep out of what?
Sri Aurobindo: Out of the war on the side of the Allies, as a possible troublemaker in the Balkans. Is it true that Italy is bringing down her own planes? (Laughter)
It seems, in a raid over some Italian town by English planes, not a single plane was brought down by the Italians and much of their ammunition was wasted for which the commander reprimanded the anti-aircraft personnel and asked them to be more careful next time. In the next English raid the Italians fired accurately and carefully and brought down two out of three planes. But those two turned out to be Italian planes.
Satyendra: Who is this Sir Patro of Madras? He is also clamouring for India’s defence.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh, everybody is doing that now.
Nirodbaran: The Congress Working Committee has asked Congressmen to take precautionary measures for defence. What precautionary measures can they take?
Sri Aurobindo: They can make a battle cry with their Charkhas and shoot down the parachutists with them. Gandhi may have disagreed with the Working Committee on this point of defence. Being non-violent, how can he support any defence measures?
Satyendra: I don’t think he will object to others taking them for the sake of the country.
Sri Aurobindo: But on principle he can’t allow them.
Nirodbaran: I don’t understand how without Gandhi they can launch civil disobedience. It will end in a fiasco.
Purani: Quite so. (Sri Aurobindo smiled.)
Sri Aurobindo (after some time): Russia is following a dangerous policy for herself. Does she think that Hitler will be so damaged by his fight with England that Stalin will be able to destroy him by an attack? When Hitler gets the whole of France he will build up his position very strongly; then he might try to blockade England, since a direct invasion of England is out of the question. If the French Navy falls into his hands, he will become tremendously strong. But when England is conquered, he will have all the French colonies and most of the British ones. His next step will naturally be to move towards the Balkans and then a clash with Russia is inevitable unless Hitler has given up his project of becoming master of Europe. The Balkan powers are foolish enough not to see that their turn will come later on.
Purani: England is not going to have Mediterranean engagements with Italy.
Sri Aurobindo: Too much occupied with Africa probably.
Purani: If the English can take the whole of Africa from Italy and crush her navy then Italy will be crippled. Her long sea coast will be open to attack everywhere. I don’t understand why Egypt is backing out.
Sri Aurobindo: This king can’t be trusted; he is a man of the dictator type. He can do anything.
Nirodbaran: Laski has written to America that he expects Labour to make an early agreement with England.
Sri Aurobindo: He expects many things that don’t come off. He expects that every Frenchman will fight till the last Frenchman falls.
Nirodbaran: The Congress Working Committee admits that some useful purpose has been served by Abul Kalam Azad’s talks with the Muslim Premiers and says the talks may continue.
Purani: This Iyengar of Madras is supporting the fifty-percent demands by Muslims.
Sri Aurobindo: Who is he?
Purani: He is a crank, giving opinions when nobody wants them.
Nirodbaran: Oh, somebody was saying that Sir Akbar also demands fifty percent for Muslims.
Sri Aurobindo: That is for Hyderabad where the Muslims have had a monopoly till now. He can’t suddenly bring it down to twenty or thirty percent, the same as in Kashmir. There the Hindus had all the monopoly. Now if the Muslim demands are acceded to, the Hindus will be wiped out.
Purani: People here are defending the French Government. They say that the people on the spot know best what the situation is and they have to act accordingly.
Sri Aurobindo: Who are the people? Indians?
Purani: Yes, they say that Hitler has allowed Holland to keep her own Dutch Government.
Nirodbaran: Government is all right. What about the policy? The Dutch will have to follow Hitler’s policy.
Sri Aurobindo: Why won’t he allow them their own Government? Hitler can bring in his own men to rule everywhere, but I don’t think he wants to attach all his conquered countries to Germany. He will make them all vassal states and have them all ruled by their own people. How can he govern all the colonies with his own people? For that matter England can’t govern India without the help of Indian officials.