Nirodbaran
Talks with Sri Aurobindo
Volume 1
10 December 1938 – 14 January 1941
22 June 1940
Sri Aurobindo: The French Government is still at Bordeaux and negotiations have only started now! The Pondicherry Government news was that the French Governor had left for Casablanca.
Purani: The Germans speak of the heroic resistance of the French Army and say that their terms will not be unjust or dishonourable.
Sri Aurobindo: No, they say they won’t be shameful but severe.
Satyendra: The Italian news says that they won’t be as bad as Versailles.
Sri Aurobindo: They may not be as bad but still bad enough. If, as is reported, Hitler wants all the colonies contiguous with British colonies, then our position becomes unsafe.
Nirodbaran: But the colonies may refuse to accept such terms.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, in that case Pétain may find an excuse and break out. But if he surrenders the navy and the colonies nothing can be more shameful and more disastrous.
Satyendra: Hitler may not be so severe now and may be content at present with only the occupation of France.
Sri Aurobindo: France in any case is gone now. Resistance is out of the question but Hitler may give such terms as to make them so powerless that he can later get the colonies and the navy.
Satyendra: Many soldiers are passing to Switzerland, they say, and are being interned. They must have been tired.
Sri Aurobindo: No, not tired. They don’t want to surrender, perhaps. From Gamelin’s photo which I saw the other day it seems to me he has no brains. He has been under the notion that defence is stronger than attack and he prepared everything only according to that principle. Being fortress-minded himself, he made the soldiers also fortress-minded. It is said that when he met the German mechanised troops he didn’t know what to do; he was so unprepared for such things as open attacks. And the wonderful Maginot Line is not a complete line. Some areas have only scattered fortifications. This Daladier, who was supposed to be an indispensable War Minister as Briand was an indispensable Foreign Minister, has done nothing. He and Chamberlain were saying all the time, “We are preparing and preparing”, but they have prepared nothing at all. That is what surprised me most, that Daladier was considered the strong man of France, while he was so evidently weak. In their meeting with Hitler, Hitler was clearly the most cunning, strong and powerful as if he could break them into bits; Daladier was of course the weakest and Chamberlain was a crafty fool thinking that he was dealing most diplomatically with Hitler while he didn’t see the reality of what he was doing. I wonder how Chamberlain had such a tremendous influence on the Conservatives.
Satyendra: Perhaps because of his laissez-faire policy and his policy of appeasement.
Sri Aurobindo: How can a laissez-faire policy build up a reputation as a politician?
Satyendra: Except for the war, he would have gone down in history as a big politician.
Sri Aurobindo: Quite so.
Purani: A certain military officer has written that France had no idea about Germany’s strength, the tremendous number of her tanks, mechanised units, etc.
Sri Aurobindo: The French had some idea but not much. The fact is that they didn’t expect such an overwhelming onrush. As I said, they have been made fortress-minded, not prepared for an open attack on such a huge scale. What is England doing to meet these tanks? They are talking only of their air force.
Purani: Yes, they are providing for it by building tanks themselves.
Nirodbaran: But how will the Germans carry the tanks to England? Besides, Churchill doesn’t expect an invasion.
Satyendra: No, not a big invasion. Because of their navy they will be able to crush much of the German Army. Churchill says that as the fighting will be on their own ground they will be at an advantage.
Sri Aurobindo: What Hitler may do is that he may choose a point and strike with his aeroplanes, destroy the ports and carry troops inland. That is the only possible way, it seems to me. But to maintain a regular supply line will be difficult.
Purani: There is Nazi activity in Uruguay. If America takes up Uruguay’s cause, perhaps Berlin will stop threatening her.
Sri Aurobindo: Oh, if Berlin intervenes, then America will certainly intervene and it may serve as an excuse for Roosevelt to join the war.
Evening
This evening there was very little talk.
Sri Aurobindo: The radio first says the plenipotentiaries are communicating with Pétain. Then it says they are not plenipotentiaries.
Nirodbaran: So all the previous news was rumour?
Sri Aurobindo: It comes to that.
Purani: It seems the meeting is being held in the same old cabin as at the end of World War I. The terms are about thirty typed pages.
Sri Aurobindo: Then there can’t be any discussion?
Purani: Not likely. If in the meantime the Italian navy could be destroyed it would be a great gain.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, but the navy is not wandering about. It must be hiding in ports behind mines.
Purani: Alexandria has been bombed again.
Nirodbaran: Egypt was once on the point of declaring war. She said that she would do it if her ports and country were attacked.
Sri Aurobindo: Yes, she has changed now. She considers what has happened as simply incidents. She removed her troops from the Italian frontier when, in an engagement, some were killed. She didn’t want to get involved.